Ordsall Chord

[Sox]

They would involve building another viaduct to the south of the existing one. There are some option plans on the net somewhere, all of which appear fairly tight to squeeze in with various impacts on the surroundings (Star and Garter pub, Macdonald hotel, and the rusty-looking building which I think is a major electricity substation).

Cheers just had a quick google myself, as you say, all looks very tight:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/northern-hub/projects/manchester-oxford-road-piccadilly/

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The rusty looking building us indeed an ENWL substation, the rusty nature of the building is intentional in that it never needs any further painting /surface protection. Use quite a lot nowadays.

Is that a similar one at the Deansgate-Castlefield Metrolink stop?

 

[The Lad]

That substation is one of the major costs of platform extensions at Piccadilly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sorry this is totally off the Ordsall Chord topic so I will leave it there.

After some of the postings made since this posting, the sentiments expressed here would appear to need to be repeated again.

 

[notlob.divad]

Back to the chord. I would be interested to know how the engineering works went over the blockade. If anyone has any updates/photos etc, that would be wonderful.

 

[snowball]

Back to the chord. I would be interested to know how the engineering works went over the blockade. If anyone has any updates/photos etc, that would be wonderful.

Seven pictures of Middlewood Viaduct taken on Sunday at the front of LDECRexile's album, as advertised on the Blackpool-Manchester thread:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/25583054245/in/album-72157661069863633/

A few pictures on Network Rail's Northern Programme Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/networkrailnp

 

[Geeves]

Came down to the Crescent on the 05:55. All working well this morning .

 

[LDECRexile]

Came down to the Crescent on the 05:55. All working well this morning .

Splendid!

 

[notlob.divad]

Mods,

Is it possible to split the discussion about Northern connect services from this thread about the Chord infrastructure into another discussion, possibly in Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables or the general sub forums.

There is clearly a lot of discussion on the potential stopping patterns, NE connectivity and the Blackpool services.

I would suggest post #1408 - # 1411 #1416 - #1419 might be a good start point. #1422 , #1427, #1429 and #1430 should all be moved to another. Thread on a forum not about infrastructure.

If it is possible thank you.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Some multi-wheel transporter pr0n for you all:

NR Ordsall Chord video

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Seriously not Preston.

I was addressing the Merseyside fraternity!
Actually I am surprised the Liverpool-Glasgow is running independently of the Manchesters.
No attaching and dividing en route.
But the timings quoted for TPE WCML services in 2019 are no faster than today.

 

[D6975]

Do the details we've seen so far give us all the information? It scarcely seems credible that the Liverpool trains will make just those two calls whilst all the Manchester trains on an established and very well-patronised service continue to be semi-fasts. Equally, is it really going to be the case that the extension of the Newcastle trains to Edinburgh will involve intermediate calls only at Morpeth?

Firstly, he was referring just to the Liverpool-Preston leg of the journey, the usual stations will be served from Preston onwards.

Secondly, the maps don't show all stations at which the services will stop. Notice that Darlington and Durham don't show on the TP map, but they will be stopping there, Likewise Oxenholme and Lancaster aren't shown either.

The Northern Connect service map is the same, several major stations that will be served not appearing.

 

[dewsnapsliding]

Some multi-wheel transporter pr0n for you all:

NR Ordsall Chord video

Can we assume that when the programme manager says that it's the first time Piccadilly and Victoria will be connected via heavy rail he is unaware of the ardwick link from low platforms at Picc (now disused). If some on this forum had their way, this would be the preferred link!

 

[keith1879]

Can we assume that when the programme manager says that it's the first time Piccadilly and Victoria will be connected via heavy rail he is unaware of the ardwick link from low platforms at Picc (now disused). If some on this forum had their way, this would be the preferred link!

Ideally with a reversal in Mayfield and a dedicated fleet of class 442s????

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Ideally with a reversal in Mayfield and a dedicated fleet of class 442s????

I have never see two "mission impossibles" conjoined in a single sentence for a while....

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Can we assume that when the programme manager says that it's the first time Piccadilly and Victoria will be connected via heavy rail he is unaware of the ardwick link from low platforms at Picc (now disused). If some on this forum had their way, this would be the preferred link!

But was there ever a direct service this way?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some multi-wheel transporter pr0n for you all:

NR Ordsall Chord video

Thanks for the You Tube link. No mention made in it of the "Whitby" syndrome which could affect the completion date referred to.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But was there ever a direct service this way?

I am wondering if there was ever a goods train service via the Ardwick line into the London Road station goods warehouse in bygone days?

 

[Senex]

But was there ever a direct service this way?

Yes there was, for a brief period, connecting off/to LNW London trains.

Incidentally, once the separate Great Central lines had been built into London Road, the Ardwick Branch did not connect into the low-"numbered" platforms -- it crossed the GC pair of tracks on the level to connect into thne LNW lines.

 

[keith1879]

I have never see two "mission impossibles" conjoined in a single sentence for a while....

Three if you count the idea of the reopened link itself
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes there was, for a brief period, connecting off/to LNW London trains.

Incidentally, once the separate Great Central lines had been built into London Road, the Ardwick Branch did not connect into the low-"numbered" platforms -- it crossed the GC pair of tracks on the level to connect into thne LNW lines.

Is there a record of how long the journey took - it looks a long way round on the map.

 

[HowardGWR]

Is there a brief summary that someone could make, that gives the max speeds that will be allowed between Victoria and Piccadilly? What would be, theoretically, the shortest journey time between the two?

 

[SodTheDrummer]

Some multi-wheel transporter pr0n for you all:

NR Ordsall Chord video

Mr Locke, that is indeed Pr0n0graphy. (Shudder...)

Thanks for the link.. have some cake..

There was a 13 second clip of a wiring train on the twit site too

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP/status/715555353644150785

 

[yorkie]

Mods,

Is it possible to split the discussion about Northern connect services from this thread about the Chord infrastructure into another discussion, possibly in Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables or the general sub forums.

There is clearly a lot of discussion on the potential stopping patterns, NE connectivity and the Blackpool services.

I would suggest post #1408 - # 1411 #1416 - #1419 might be a good start point. #1422 , #1427, #1429 and #1430 should all be moved to another. Thread on a forum not about infrastructure.

If it is possible thank you.

Done.

We do get a lot of requests to split threads, but it's essential that post numbers are included, so many thanks for providing that No need to post in the thread though; the report button will suffice I wasn't sure what to call it, so for now it's Future potential Northern connect services (deltic08 can amend the title if he wishes).

Can I remind people this thread is to discuss the Ordsall Chord; feel free to create a new thread by clicking the "New Thread" button in an appropriate forum, to discuss any spin-off matters. Thank you!

 

[PDG1949]

There was a 13 second clip of a wiring train on the twit site too https://twitter.com/NetworkRailNP/status/715555353644150785

Not a REAL wiring train up North? I think I need to sit down.....

 

[snowball]

Is there a brief summary that someone could make, that gives the max speeds that will be allowed between Victoria and Piccadilly?

30 throughout, I think. I should imagine the time is determined more by the starting and stopping than by the short distance.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Is there a brief summary that someone could make, that gives the max speeds that will be allowed between Victoria and Piccadilly? What would be, theoretically, the shortest journey time between the two?

I'd suggest that at a 25mph typical top speed with one intermediate call on a two-mile journey the transit time could be about 6 minutes (excluding junction allowances).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'd suggest that at a 25mph typical top speed with one intermediate call on a two-mile journey the transit time could be about 6 minutes (excluding junction allowances).

Where do you feel the intermediate stop should be from the choice of three that currently exist?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Where do you feel the intermediate stop should be from the choice of three that currently exist?

I think they may all be different. I am imagining the Bradford - MIA will stop at Deansgate and Oxford Road but the TPE services from the NE to MIA will only stop of Oxford Road. The Northern local services may stop at Salford Central, Deansgate and Oxford Road.

 

[Senex]

Is there a record of how long the journey took - it looks a long way round on the map.

I've never seen one, because I've never seen a full, normal timetable for the service. It seemed to get referred to just in footnotes!

The line was opened as a single line in late 1848 and was double in 1865 and the primary purpose was certainly as a goods link. Passenger services seem to have begun at the end of 1852. John Marshall ("The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway" volume 1)quotes the following from Bradshaw for February 1853: "Passengers leaving London by LNWR trains at 6.30 and 10 am, 12 noon and Chester at 9.45 am are conveyed via Miles Platting Junction to the trains to Oldham, Bury, Rochdale, Yorkshire, etc. Passengers for London, Birmingham, and the south by LYR up trains Nos 2, 3, 7 & 9 change carriages at Miles Platting and are conveyed by the branch to Ardwick to meet trains leaving London Road at 9.45 and 11.35 morning and 5 and 9.12 afternoon."

I have not seen any record of when these trains stopped running. There were also special passenger services during the Manchester Art Treasures Exhibition in the summer of 1857.

The LNW had a down-side-only platform at Ardwick which was closed with effect from 16 December 1902 and removed two years later.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The distance between Victoria and London Road was just short of 4½ miles, so it seems reasonable to assume, given the alignments and curvature, that a non-stop run between the two stations would take no longer than 10 minutes if the line were restored.

 

[keith1879]

I've never seen one, because I've never seen a full, normal timetable for the service. It seemed to get referred to just in footnotes!

The line was opened as a single line in late 1848 and was double in 1865 and the primary purpose was certainly as a goods link. Passenger services seem to have begun at the end of 1852. John Marshall ("The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway" volume 1)quotes the following from Bradshaw for February 1853: "Passengers leaving London by LNWR trains at 6.30 and 10 am, 12 noon and Chester at 9.45 am are conveyed via Miles Platting Junction to the trains to Oldham, Bury, Rochdale, Yorkshire, etc. Passengers for London, Birmingham, and the south by LYR up trains Nos 2, 3, 7 & 9 change carriages at Miles Platting and are conveyed by the branch to Ardwick to meet trains leaving London Road at 9.45 and 11.35 morning and 5 and 9.12 afternoon."

I have not seen any record of when these trains stopped running. There were also special passenger services during the Manchester Art Treasures Exhibition in the summer of 1857.

The LNW had a down-side-only platform at Ardwick which was closed with effect from 16 December 1902 and removed two years later.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The distance between Victoria and London Road was just short of 4½ miles, so it seems reasonable to assume, given the alignments and curvature, that a non-stop run between the two stations would take no longer than 10 minutes if the line were restored.

A class 442 could do it in 8....... but seriously - thanks for the info.

 

[CdBrux]

I would think Salford Central will be a stop for the majority of services, it is getting 2, (or even 3?) additional platforms added / re-instated and is well positioned for the growth office area of Spinningfields and Chapel Street.