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Overlapping Advance tickets OK?

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mad_rich

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I'm guessing the answer is yes, but just wondering if it's OK to hold two overlapping Advance tickets, on the same train. For example

Newcastle - Darlington, and
Durham - King's Cross

(the train in question stops at both).
 
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yorkie

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I see no reason why not. It has cropped up before actually: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/overlapping-advance-tickets.48421/ !

There is nothing in the advance ticket terms that says you can't have another ticket to cover part of your journey, unless you know different and can find it. You clearly neither start late nor stop short because you don't get off the train.
...the passenger starts at the origin on ticket 1 and
ends their journey at the destination on ticket 2. At all points they are travelling on a route permitted by their ticket and on the compulsory reserved service when appropriate....
From The Fares Manual:

It doesn't say anywhere that you can't overlap!
If @Solent&Wessex agrees it's valid, you can be pretty sure it is ;)
 
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mad_rich

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Many thanks. I thought, logically, that nobody could be upset if I've paid twice for part of the journey!
 
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There seems a potential vulnerability if both Advance tickets specify a seat. Advance T&Cs require you to:
* sit in the specified seat (where a seat is specified)
* make the full journey shown on the ticket
Given that you can't sit in two seats at once, then on the overlapping part of the journey, couldn't the passenger be accused of breaking the rules on one ticket or the other?
 

yorkie

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There seems a potential vulnerability if both Advance tickets specify a seat. Advance T&Cs require you to:
* sit in the specified seat (where a seat is specified)
* make the full journey shown on the ticket
Given that you can't sit in two seats at once, then on the overlapping part of the journey, couldn't the passenger be accused of breaking the rules on one ticket or the other?
Have you read the thread I linked to? It's all discussed in there.

For your first point, if a passenger is deemed to be breaking the terms of their Advance fare by not sitting in their seat, then a lot of passengers are going to be in hot water for daring to visit the buffet or toilet facilities! :lol:

Also you will see that a poster (jokingly) pointed out that it would be possible to obtain adjacent seats, so that a passenger could spread out across both seats, in order to satisfy this condition. ;)

As for your second point, again this was answered on the thread, but the passenger does make the full journey specified on each ticket, though a journey is not restricted to the use of one ticket anyway.
 

najaB

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I'm guessing the answer is yes, but just wondering if it's OK to hold two overlapping Advance tickets, on the same train. For example

Newcastle - Darlington, and
Durham - King's Cross

(the train in question stops at both).
If one wanted to be pathologically pedantic, you could argue that the passenger was breaking early/starting short on one or the other ticket. But realistically I don't foresee any TOC taking this line.

I guess putting your foot on the platform at both of the crossover stations would nullify even that argument.
 

Ianno87

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If one wanted to be pathologically pedantic, you could argue that the passenger was breaking early/starting short on one or the other ticket. But realistically I don't foresee any TOC taking this line.

I guess putting your foot on the platform at both of the crossover stations would nullify even that argument.

Or as a passenger can you be in use of two tickets simultaneously? :)
 

yorkie

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If one wanted to be pathologically pedantic, you could argue that the passenger was breaking early/starting short on one or the other ticket. But realistically I don't foresee any TOC taking this line.

I guess putting your foot on the platform at both of the crossover stations would nullify even that argument.
Back when the concept of 'break of journey' was actually defined, it was defined as exiting station premises, other than for the purpose of taking a train from another station. While it remains the case that Advance fares prohibit break of journey, it is not the case that any journey is broken in this case.
Or as a passenger can you be in use of two tickets simultaneously? :)
There is no practicable, good reason why not!

It may cause some confusion, for example I once purchased York to Grantham plus Newark to London Off Peak Day Returns; it was necessary to overlap because the outward train called at Grantham (but not Newark) while the return called at Newark (but not Grantham). This was not much more expensive than splitting at one or the other, and meant we could take the trains of our choice, while not paying the ludicrous through fare from York to London. The Guard on the outward service studied the tickets for quite some time before saying "I think you may have paid too much"; I then explained why I had done this.
 

SwindonBert

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Or as a passenger can you be in use of two tickets simultaneously? :)

I suspect it's one of those incidents that no one thought to stop, as no one considered anyone would deliberately buy 2 tickets for the same journey to save money
 
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