Overlapping Advance tickets OK?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by mad_rich, 14 Aug 2019.

  1. mad_rich

    mad_rich Member

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    12 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Newcastle
    I'm guessing the answer is yes, but just wondering if it's OK to hold two overlapping Advance tickets, on the same train. For example

    Newcastle - Darlington, and
    Durham - King's Cross

    (the train in question stops at both).
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    42,842
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I see no reason why not. It has cropped up before actually: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/overlapping-advance-tickets.48421/ !

    If @Solent&Wessex agrees it's valid, you can be pretty sure it is ;)
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  4. mad_rich

    mad_rich Member

    Messages:
    111
    Joined:
    12 Feb 2013
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Many thanks. I thought, logically, that nobody could be upset if I've paid twice for part of the journey!
     
  5. TheManOnThe172

    TheManOnThe172 Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    1 Aug 2014
    There seems a potential vulnerability if both Advance tickets specify a seat. Advance T&Cs require you to:
    * sit in the specified seat (where a seat is specified)
    * make the full journey shown on the ticket
    Given that you can't sit in two seats at once, then on the overlapping part of the journey, couldn't the passenger be accused of breaking the rules on one ticket or the other?
     
  6. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    42,842
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Have you read the thread I linked to? It's all discussed in there.

    For your first point, if a passenger is deemed to be breaking the terms of their Advance fare by not sitting in their seat, then a lot of passengers are going to be in hot water for daring to visit the buffet or toilet facilities! :lol:

    Also you will see that a poster (jokingly) pointed out that it would be possible to obtain adjacent seats, so that a passenger could spread out across both seats, in order to satisfy this condition. ;)

    As for your second point, again this was answered on the thread, but the passenger does make the full journey specified on each ticket, though a journey is not restricted to the use of one ticket anyway.
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    19,771
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    If one wanted to be pathologically pedantic, you could argue that the passenger was breaking early/starting short on one or the other ticket. But realistically I don't foresee any TOC taking this line.

    I guess putting your foot on the platform at both of the crossover stations would nullify even that argument.
     
  8. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,829
    Joined:
    3 May 2015
    Or as a passenger can you be in use of two tickets simultaneously? :)
     
  9. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    42,842
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Back when the concept of 'break of journey' was actually defined, it was defined as exiting station premises, other than for the purpose of taking a train from another station. While it remains the case that Advance fares prohibit break of journey, it is not the case that any journey is broken in this case.
    There is no practicable, good reason why not!

    It may cause some confusion, for example I once purchased York to Grantham plus Newark to London Off Peak Day Returns; it was necessary to overlap because the outward train called at Grantham (but not Newark) while the return called at Newark (but not Grantham). This was not much more expensive than splitting at one or the other, and meant we could take the trains of our choice, while not paying the ludicrous through fare from York to London. The Guard on the outward service studied the tickets for quite some time before saying "I think you may have paid too much"; I then explained why I had done this.
     
  10. SwindonBert

    SwindonBert Member

    Messages:
    159
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2017
    Location:
    Swindon
    I suspect it's one of those incidents that no one thought to stop, as no one considered anyone would deliberately buy 2 tickets for the same journey to save money
     

Share This Page