Overtime earnings

[Bromley boy]

Hi guys,

I'm about to start as a trainee driver, extremely excited about it and grateful for the opportunity, although I'm aware that the hard work starts now!

I just wondered what the max earnings would be for a fully qualified driver working all available over time. The basic on offer at my toc will be £50k give or take once I qualify. Would £60-65k be achievable?

Cheers

Bb.

 

[GadgetMan]

Hi guys,

I'm about to start as a trainee driver, extremely excited about it and grateful for the opportunity, although I'm aware that the hard work starts now!

I just wondered what the max earnings would be for a fully qualified driver working all available over time. The basic on offer at my toc will be £50k give or take once I qualify. Would £60-65k be achievable?

Cheers

Bb.

You can hit those amounts and even higher. Be warned though fatigue is more likely to affect you when you bash the OT making an operational incident more likely.

 

[GB]

It surely depends on how much over time is actually available but I know of drivers who have just about broken the 100k mark on a 55k salary. They lived at work though.

 

[455driver]

Doing lots of OT after qualifying usually results in sitting in the messroom for a few weeks after effing up.

It is better to bed yourself in before getting clever.

 

[whoosh]

Bear in mind a few things:

It's shift work, and not even a standard 06:00-14:00, 14:00-22:00, 22:00-06:00, or even a 07:00-19:00, 19:00-07:00. It can be all over the place with start times and breaks at sometimes considerably different times each day.
This is fatiguing physically. Even having your meals and when you go to the toilet at different times can affect you.

You'll have a lot to learn when you are training, and then when you are out on your own, a lot of experience to gain, plus a lot of concentration. This is fatiguing mentally.


It's best not to think about overtime, and just get through the first couple of years as you get used to the job.

If it's a company with a massive recruitment drive, there won't be as much overtime anyway, so I would say speculating about what *some* drivers (who live at work) get now, wont be comparable with how things stand in a year or two anyway.

 

[red2005]

there is working to live and there's living to work!

be very careful on the OT especially when newly qualified as it's got incident written all over it!

I'd concentrate on getting through the course first mate......the wedge will take care of itself later.

 

[ComUtoR]

Doing lots of OT after qualifying usually results in sitting in the messroom for a few weeks after effing up.

It is better to bed yourself in before getting clever.

Heed this advice.

Especially if you got the job at where I believe you did.

(...) The salary is excellent but I've learned the hard way that doing a job purely for the £ is a one way ticket to unhappiness.

Heed your own advice too

 

[Bromley boy]

Thanks for the replies.

Good to know the earnings can be so flexible, and potentially so high. I hasten to add I'm not doing it for the money. I was earning around £70k before, but being gimped in an office for it, 15 hour days, dickhead colleagues and with no paid overtime. It's just useful to know re budgeting/mortgage.

I reckon drivers deserve the £££ just for the ignorant comments - "isn't it just pushing a button?". Does that ever let up?

 

[ComUtoR]

- "isn't it just pushing a button?". Does that ever let up?

Nope

 

[Gemz91]

A lad at our place earned £21,000 overtime in a year, although I'm sure he could have got more. Problem was, he spent all his time at work, when his misses was sleeping about, he thought money would fix the problem, but in my opinion it was just making it worse. If you have a family, just remember the effects working over time will have on them.

As for budgeting though, you should never budget for over time being a certain. If you do, and you go sick for example, for 3 or 4 months, or if over time dries up, as it sometimes does, it'll screw you up. You should always budget for your basic wage, anything more is a bonus.

 

[red2005]

Thanks for the replies.

Good to know the earnings can be so flexible, and potentially so high. I hasten to add I'm not doing it for the money. I was earning around £70k before, but being gimped in an office for it, 15 hour days, dickhead colleagues and with no paid overtime. It's just useful to know re budgeting/mortgage.

I reckon drivers deserve the £££ just for the ignorant comments - "isn't it just pushing a button?". Does that ever let up?

well i would just enjoy the fact you can now earn decent money without doing 15 hour days......you surely don't wanna be spending all your time at work anyway mate? you'd soon get annoyed with the job.

 

[scott118]

the tax man is going to love you fella..

 

[D1939]

the tax man is going to love you fella..

Ha ha that's right, isn't it 40% just over 42,000?

 

[A-driver]

Whatever you do, work out your mortgage and budgets based on the 50k basic. Don't even take rostered Sundays into account. I know people who's budgets and mortgages are based on them working a lot of OT. The problem is that if they end up on sick for a week or two or have an incident and spend 3 months off track whilst they wait for a manager to have time to investigate it they can no longer afford to pay their mortgage or other bills and end up in financial trouble. I know 2 drivers personally who went through this.

Most treat OT earnings as a nice bonus which goes towards a nicer holiday, bigger deposit on a new car, the decorating the house, feeding a savings account etc and so if they can't get the OT it's not a problem.

Base any budgets or financial decisions on the basic salary alone as that is all you are garunteed in the driving grade. If you budget for extra and find by the time you pass out OT has just about dried up you may have problems.

 

[ComUtoR]

Whatever you do, work out your mortgage and budgets based on the 50k basic.

Minus, Tax, NI, Pension + AVC's

I'd also leave a little flex in any budget so your always slightly ahead. I find that people who budget right to the max aren't planning right.

I have also found that many are doing overtime to keep afloat. I see many trainees coming in from other jobs suddenly feeling the pinch of a lower salary and those are the ones that bolt out the gate into RDW.

As 455 cautioned. Settle in first. The shifts alone can be difficult to adjust to. Then you suddenly realize your alone out the at the sharp end. Passcom's at 0100 can be a little gut wrenching.

 

[scott118]

As 455 cautioned. Settle in first. The shifts alone can be difficult to adjust to. Then you suddenly realize your alone out the at the sharp end. Passcom's at 0100 can be a little gut wrenching.

even more so, when you are booked ECS....

They'll do their damnedest to get you out of the seat, once they've placed you into it..

 

[ComUtoR]

even more so, when you are booked ECS....

Had that. Poor lass was in tears when I flipped the lights out. It was a late one (2200 something)

Anything that happens at night feel amplified. It can be quite a shock to new Drivers. Dealing with your first passcom/brake application/fault whilst on your own can be worrying. There are some thing you just cannot train for. Having that period where you settle in first does reduce your likelihood of incidents etc.

Learn the timetable and build up your confidence with passenger interaction and ride out the leaf fall and winter. Hit the summer running and then grab a few RD's when the AL roster kicks in and they are up for grabs.

 

[455driver]

Whatever you do, work out your mortgage and budgets based on the 50k basic.

Oh to be on £50k basic!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They'll do their damnedest to get you out of the seat, once they've placed you into it..

That isn't what I have found, every Manager I have ever worked for has been good as gold and done their best for the drivers as long as the drivers are honest with them, I am not saying they all are though!

 

[A-driver]

Minus, Tax, NI, Pension + AVC's



I'd also leave a little flex in any budget so your always slightly ahead. I find that people who budget right to the max aren't planning right.



I have also found that many are doing overtime to keep afloat. I see many trainees coming in from other jobs suddenly feeling the pinch of a lower salary and those are the ones that bolt out the gate into RDW.



As 455 cautioned. Settle in first. The shifts alone can be difficult to adjust to. Then you suddenly realize your alone out the at the sharp end. Passcom's at 0100 can be a little gut wrenching.

I'm assuming the OP knows how to manage their own finances and dosnt need patronising! The thread isn't about how to manage your finances or salary vs take home but about how reliant you could plan to be on additional earnings as a driver.

 

[Bromley boy]

Thanks for the further replies - all good sage advice.

Out of interest, when you get a passcom in the middle of the night, do you go back into the train to sort it out yourself or call the police?

I was on a train with the passcom pulled and the driver walked down the outside of the train rather than through the carriages.

 

[MartinG]

Thanks for the further replies - all good sage advice.

Out of interest, when you get a passcom in the middle of the night, do you go back into the train to sort it out yourself or call the police?

I was on a train with the passcom pulled and the driver walked down the outside of the train rather than through the carriages.

Your guard sorts it out.

 

[ComUtoR]

Your guard sorts it out.

Not if your DOO.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The thread isn't about how to manage your finances or salary vs take home but about how reliant you could plan to be on additional earnings as a driver.

Hang on a sec. Didn't you offer advice on how to budget or did I fail at English somewhere.

As to for the reliance on overtime. I can categorically state that the advice that RDW dries up is patently false on our TOC and many others. The railway runs on overtime. Many threads on this very forum state that and I'm pretty sure you have stated that yourself on occasion. I have NEVER seen overtime run out. Hell plan for 2 days month and your well in. With the 4 day week you have 3 workable days and even if you get 2 on and a single day off you still meet Hidden.

I'm certainly not being patronizing whatsoever. I've lost count of the people who forget that you always need to account for the bottom line when running their budgets. Making a budget for the basic wage is detrimental and will not work. I have also lost count of the people coming from other employment on higher salaries struggling to make ends meet whilst on rules and the rush to get their money up. It also causes stress on relationships.

The streets may be paved with gold but I assure you it is a very narrow one with a steep learning curve on one side and a cliff edge on the other.

Patronizing; no. Just a realist.

As to the passcom. If your DOO then its just you. No guard, Ticket Examiner, REO or Trolley Dolly. Get your ass back there through the drunks, yobs, footie fans and the general detritus that is the traveling public at their worse. Stick in your T key and reset the passcom. You are on your own. That hard fact can punch you in the face sometimes and that what some people tend to overlook. Its a great job but the reality is far from the dream.

 

[MartinG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinG
Your guard sorts it out.
Not if your DOO.

And how sad and dangerous is that...

 

[tsr]

As to the passcom. If your DOO then its just you. No guard, Ticket Examiner, REO or Trolley Dolly. Get your ass back there through the drunks, yobs, footie fans and the general detritus that is the traveling public at their worse. Stick in your T key and reset the passcom. You are on your own. That hard fact can punch you in the face sometimes and that what some people tend to overlook. Its a great job but the reality is far from the dream.

Perhaps this is a compelling argument for why everyone should be a guard (where that basically can describe the day-to-day existence when you hit the bits on the roster where you work long weekends) before a driver

 

[redbutton]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinG
Your guard sorts it out.
Not if your DOO.

And how sad and dangerous is that...

I don't think it's dangerous at all. Before you go back, you tell the signaller what's happening and that you'll ring him when it's resolved. When you don't ring him back, he calls the cavalry.

Sure, it's not as good as having a guard, but I wouldn't call it necessarily dangerous.

 

[MartinG]

I don't think it's dangerous at all. Before you go back, you tell the signaller what's happening and that you'll ring him when it's resolved. When you don't ring him back, he calls the cavalry.

Sure, it's not as good as having a guard, but I wouldn't call it necessarily dangerous.

The guard has been up and down the train, getting the measure, calming things down, organising back up if needed.
DOO - Walk straight in to an unknown situation with no other member of staff available and you don't think that's dangerous - have you done a last train back on a Saturday night?!

 

[ComUtoR]

have you done a last train back on a Saturday night?!

Too many times I sat at [redacted] one night on the last train down on a saturday night. Freight failed in front and with no diversionary options. Last train down IS gonna run all stations to get people home and clear the line. Hit the SG, Wait, Call the sig. Sorry but you have to wait it out. Pick up the PA handset.....

We have had Drivers assaulted and Guards too. The "trick" they use is to pull the passcom because you have no choice but to go back and reset it manually.

On a crowded commuter train its just as bad. Not because of the passenger type but because of the nature of the situation. Its overcrowded and you can't walk through, its in the other unit or you have had multiple passcoms pulled. Walking down the cess is a good decision sometimes.

It really is a compelling argument against TRUE DOO.

 

[MartinG]

Too many times I sat at [redacted] one night on the last train down on a saturday night. Freight failed in front and with no diversionary options. Last train down IS gonna run all stations to get people home and clear the line. Hit the SG, Wait, Call the sig. Sorry but you have to wait it out. Pick up the PA handset.....

We have had Drivers assaulted and Guards too. The "trick" they use is to pull the passcom because you have no choice but to go back and reset it manually.

On a crowded commuter train its just as bad. Not because of the passenger type but because of the nature of the situation. Its overcrowded and you can't walk through, its in the other unit or you have had multiple passcoms pulled. Walking down the cess is a good decision sometimes.

It really is a compelling argument against TRUE DOO.

'True' ?

 

[ComUtoR]

'True' ?

Some forumites believe the DOO only means doing the doors. They forget that DOO means that the only person on the train may only be the Driver.

Technically there are different versions of DOO

Driver Only Operation (DOO) is defined in Railway Group Standards as:
"The operation of a train without a person on board for the purpose of protecting the train when the driver is incapacitated and the train is stopped by failure, accident, obstruction of the line or other exceptional incident."

There are further distinctions between DOO(P) and DOO (NP):

DOO (Passenger), applies to trains carrying passengers
DOO (Non-Passenger), applies to Freight, Mail, Parcels and Empty Coaching Stock, Light Locomotives and On-Track Machines.

The extreme of DOO(P) is that there is no one else. It's not required so the TOC doesn't provide anyone else. 1 Driver. 500+ passengers. If you have another member of staff on board some believe that its ok and they can carry out Customer service and various other duties. In reality it will still be the Driver going back to deal with anything on the train.

We run DOO(p) with just us at the sharp end. Some TOC's run with onboard managers and other revenue and customer service staff but they are still useless when it comes to things like Passcoms and brake applications etc.

When your out there on your own with a full train in the middle of the night you do realize how scary and dangerous DOO can really be. Not every trainee makes it through manual handling and I've seen a few quit after incidents.

Smashing in RDW after you pass out really isn't advisable. Your body clock alone screws with you. The roster is built with a fatigue index and rest day workers do indeed suffer with fatigue. That can lead to incident.

It is hard to read this forum sometimes with our grade being touted as this miracle dream job with money pouring out the gutters. RDW is there to be had for sure but someone must state the hard realities. That person is me.

 

[theironroad]

I'm fortunate to work with a guard and I can tell you a good guard is worth their weight in gold on modern stock especially as when the passcom, egress or call for aid is pulled the guard can get it sorted without me even having to slow down the train let alone stopping and having to walk back through a packed 12 car train and then walk back. The delays are kept to a minimum if not zero.

To whoever said do you call the police for a passcom, that gave me a good laugh. It's hard enough getting police to come to a train when there is a real problem. Unless the passcom has been pulled for a assault or something, then its nothing to do with the police.

Regards the op, I've known drivers rely on working many FD only for them to dry up or a free day non sanction comes in and they're back to basic. By all means use ot for special items or sticking into pension, savings etc, just don't think it will always be there every month.