Overtime earnings

[ComUtoR]

To whoever said do you call the police for a passcom, that gave me a good laugh. It's hard enough getting police to come to a train when there is a real problem. Unless the passcom has been pulled for a assault or something, then its nothing to do with the police.

To be fair. He is new and that naivety shows what the level of expectation new Drivers have. No such thing as a stupid question. Funny, yes. I kinda giggled too but certainly an eye opening question for others who browse this forum.

 

[Bromley boy]

Too many times I sat at [redacted] one night on the last train down on a saturday night. Freight failed in front and with no diversionary options. Last train down IS gonna run all stations to get people home and clear the line. Hit the SG, Wait, Call the sig. Sorry but you have to wait it out. Pick up the PA handset.....

We have had Drivers assaulted and Guards too. The "trick" they use is to pull the passcom because you have no choice but to go back and reset it manually.

On a crowded commuter train its just as bad. Not because of the passenger type but because of the nature of the situation. Its overcrowded and you can't walk through, its in the other unit or you have had multiple passcoms pulled. Walking down the cess is a good decision sometimes.

It really is a compelling argument against TRUE DOO.

Doesn't sound great. In the example I mentioned, the driver had announced that the train was to run fast to its destination due to delays. Someone obviously hadn't heard/understood and pulled the passcom just before the last station. He walked along the side of the track rather than going through the coaches - I assume because he didn't want the abuse.

 

[ComUtoR]

He walked along the side of the track rather than going through the coaches - I assume because he didn't want the abuse.

You still have to go inside to reset the passcom and still have to speak to the passengers via the pa etc. They are unavoidable. He most likely walked the train length because it was easier/faster or something else. Going outside your unit is one of the last options. Getting grief is part and parcel and something not avoidable.

There are also external egresses etc.

 

[ungreat]

Dont do overtime or sundays,I live on the basic.Comfortably
As has been said,dont go down the RDW every week.You WILL regret it big time!
As for DOO,cant add any more to it apart from I agree with its ****ing scary when the passcom goes on a late night service and you have no idea what you are walking back to.
Nearly 30 years in the grade now,and I miss my Guard.Worst thing that ever happened was DOO

 

[Bromley boy]

Dont do overtime or sundays,I live on the basic.Comfortably
As has been said,dont go down the RDW every week.You WILL regret it big time!
As for DOO,cant add any more to it apart from I agree with its ****ing scary when the passcom goes on a late night service and you have no idea what you are walking back to.
Nearly 30 years in the grade now,and I miss my Guard.Worst thing that ever happened was DOO

Two of the blokes on my assessment were guards (my toc does DOO and guarded(?!) services). Both said they had been hospitalised by passengers. Struggle to see the appeal of that job I must confess - and for a lot less money than drivers get.

 

[Greenback]

This thread is about overtime earnings. Please don't turn it into another DOO thread. Thanks!

 

[kelv]

Jeez, I'd be more than happy with the basic salary .... overjoyed in fact, and do the overtime when required and it be a bonus. From what I understand from someone I know that's a driver, he gets a fair amount of o/t covering others holidays and said that they get that much time off that they at times book holidays to sort of work the system for each other with regards to maximum overtime payments with minimum effect on their lives outside of work.

 

[A-driver]

Jeez, I'd be more than happy with the basic salary .... overjoyed in fact, and do the overtime when required and it be a bonus. From what I understand from someone I know that's a driver, he gets a fair amount of o/t covering others holidays and said that they get that much time off that they at times book holidays to sort of work the system for each other with regards to maximum overtime payments with minimum effect on their lives outside of work.

If you read the original post you will see that the poster is looking to make financial plans as he is taking a 20k pay cut after training to take this job. So opinions about how 'happy' you would be with 50kPA are irrelevant as whilst it's a good salary to some it isn't to others.

As for using AL and working OT it is of course possible and hardly working the system. I work a 4 day week over 6 days. There is no reason I can't book one day off and volunteer to work another meaning I earn OT whilst still only working 4 days. Can't see how that is working the system.

 

[387star]

Dont do overtime or sundays,I live on the basic.Comfortably
As has been said,dont go down the RDW every week.You WILL regret it big time!
As for DOO,cant add any more to it apart from I agree with its ****ing scary when the passcom goes on a late night service and you have no idea what you are walking back to.
Nearly 30 years in the grade now,and I miss my Guard.Worst thing that ever happened was DOO

Yeah actually i used the example of a passcomm going off for working under pressure in a previous interview I passed

It turned out to be an idiotic drunk but like you say I had no idea what I was walking to and then assessing the situation whilst obviously getting the message across that his actions were simply not acceptable

Perversely being a guard has helped me into becoming a DOO trainee!

 

[ComUtoR]

Jeez, I'd be more than happy with the basic salary .... overjoyed in fact, and do the overtime when required and it be a bonus.

For some who enter the grade they have been on a previously higher salary. Its the drop of income people take that pushes them towards overtime.

I was overjoyed, even on training money but that was because my previous job was relatively low paid. For me it was a step up. For others taking a step down it can seriously impact their lives. Trying to suddenly meet your mortgage payments and various other debts drives some new entrants to pushing for as much overtime as they can grab.

I was stunned with the stories I heard but I do understand that everyone's situation is different. There is a lot of pressure when you change jobs and it does affect you personally. I have seen trainees pushing themselves on rules and traction because of the single minded push towards "getting their money up" and even trainees wanting to work their rest days when their DI does :/

 

[JAMBO]

If a driver can't get by on £50k a year then there is something seriously wrong. I knew guys who topped 20-30k a year easily in O/T but were married to the job. Home life suffers, never saw the kids as there became obsessed by the money. There health suffered and looked like they were about to drop dead from fatigue and exhaustion.

 

[JohnFM]

The thing is overtime is not guaranteed. Other drivers might be taking up the extra and you're left with nothing.

I am not saying that this is true for the OP but if you need overtime to make ends meet then you've made the worst decision of your life as you'll either be in a position where your house is under threat as you can't get the hours or getting that overtime means your wife leaves you - and takes half your hard earned pension!

 

[Greenback]

If a driver can't get by on £50k a year then there is something seriously wrong. I knew guys who topped 20-30k a year easily in O/T but were married to the job. Home life suffers, never saw the kids as there became obsessed by the money. There health suffered and looked like they were about to drop dead from fatigue and exhaustion.

Where someone has been earning £70k annually they may find it a struggle to manage on £50k. They may have financial commitments that they entered into on the basis of their previous salary. These can be dealt with in many instances but may take time to sort out.

The thing is overtime is not guaranteed. Other drivers might be taking up the extra and you're left with nothing.

I agree fully with those who say that overtime shouldn't be relied on. It's the icing of the cake if it's there and can be done without affecting home life too much.

 

[Bromley boy]

Where someone has been earning £70k annually they may find it a struggle to manage on £50k. They may have financial commitments that they entered into on the basis of their previous salary. These can be dealt with in many instances but may take time to sort out.



I agree fully with those who say that overtime shouldn't be relied on. It's the icing of the cake if it's there and can be done without affecting home life too much.

I'm quite fortunate in that my living expenses, mortgage etc. are manageable and I have some savings accrued so will be able to live on the basic comfortably (and indeed will be able to survive a year on the much lower training salary). I agree it would be stupid to start any job and be reliant on overtime.

The reason for the query was just to get a sense of what earnings can be if drivers wish to work additional over time. It's great to know the flexibility is there to substantially increase earnings if desired/necessary which is another fantastic aspect of the job I didn't fully appreciate when first applying.

 

[JohnFM]

I think you're focusing on something a bit too much. The words "substantially increase earnings" is obviously a driving factor for you. If so I would seriously advise to reconsider applying.

There are absolutely no guarantees and with the drive for trainees to fill existing positions increasing, the scope for overtime lessens with each new recruit that comes in.

You "might be able to increase your earnings occasionally" might be a much more accurate view.

If your heart is set on "substantially increasing earnings" as you say, you're looking at the wrong job.

 

[Greenback]

I'm quite fortunate in that my living expenses, mortgage etc. are manageable and I have some savings accrued so will be able to live on the basic comfortably (and indeed will be able to survive a year on the much lower training salary). I agree it would be stupid to start any job and be reliant on overtime.

The reason for the query was just to get a sense of what earnings can be if drivers wish to work additional over time. It's great to know the flexibility is there to substantially increase earnings if desired/necessary which is another fantastic aspect of the job I didn't fully appreciate when first applying.

I'm glad you'll be able to manage on the basic salary. As such, if I were you, I'd just concentrate on getting through your rostered hours and making the most of the benefits that come from being a driver without thinking too much about earning extra money.

The other side of the anti social shifts is that you'll probably have a much better work life balance than you do now. Enjoy the time off that you get, there's more to life than money, but having said that, if you do want to make a little extra occasionally, do it if you want to. just don't think in terms of making 'substantially' more, as that means, if you can do it all, drastically increasing the amount of days and hours that you're at work.

 

[notadriver]

Driving a train is mentally tiring - more so than any other type of driving.

 

[Bromley boy]

I think you're focusing on something a bit too much. The words "substantially increase earnings" is obviously a driving factor for you. If so I would seriously advise to reconsider applying.

There are absolutely no guarantees and with the drive for trainees to fill existing positions increasing, the scope for overtime lessens with each new recruit that comes in.

You "might be able to increase your earnings occasionally" might be a much more accurate view.

If your heart is set on "substantially increasing earnings" as you say, you're looking at the wrong job.

Definitely not - if you read my previous post I've stated I wasn't actually aware overtime was available to this level at the time I applied so it's not a "driving factor", but a "nice to have if available", and not something I will be reliant upon. In any case my own personal financial situation/motives for applying for the driver role aren't relevant to a thread asking about overtime potential earnings which has been thoroughly answered. My focus will be getting through the training qualifying year before taking stock re. overtime.

Thanks again for all the responses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm glad you'll be able to manage on the basic salary. As such, if I were you, I'd just concentrate on getting through your rostered hours and making the most of the benefits that come from being a driver without thinking too much about earning extra money.

The other side of the anti social shifts is that you'll probably have a much better work life balance than you do now. Enjoy the time off that you get, there's more to life than money, but having said that, if you do want to make a little extra occasionally, do it if you want to. just don't think in terms of making 'substantially' more, as that means, if you can do it all, drastically increasing the amount of days and hours that you're at work.

Definitely - the shift work lifestyle is definitely a real draw to the job. It will be nice to break away from the Monday - Friday 8:30-till-whenever treadmill.

 

[Greenback]

I've worked shifts and odd hours at various times in my life, but never anything like a driving role. I can't speak from experience, but I imagine that it can be mentally tiring as so much concentration is involved. I suspect that exactly how tiring people find it will vary from individual to individual, and maybe even shift to shift as well as route by route.

The only point I'm trying to make, In think is that you may well need all the down time from the job that you can get. Away from work the increased time with your family will be as great a reward as the monetary ones, especially compared to what you have been doing in your £70k pa role!

 

[Bromley boy]

I've worked shifts and odd hours at various times in my life, but never anything like a driving role. I can't speak from experience, but I imagine that it can be mentally tiring as so much concentration is involved. I suspect that exactly how tiring people find it will vary from individual to individual, and maybe even shift to shift as well as route by route.

The only point I'm trying to make, In think is that you may well need all the down time from the job that you can get. Away from work the increased time with your family will be as great a reward as the monetary ones, especially compared to what you have been doing in your £70k pa role!

That's exactly what I'm hoping for as well. I'm going into this with my eyes open and was questioned about living on the training salary during my interview. Part of the point of this move is to change my lifestyle for the better rather than chasing every penny.

I'm just glad I've lived a bit more frugally than some of my mates from my previous industry who have taken on big, unaffordable mortgages (or even worse ****ed their money away renting in zone 1), bought expensive cars etc. Many have grown to loathe their jobs but are trapped as their commitments mean they cannot afford a pay cut to retrain elsewhere. I've known people on six figure incomes who are still living hand to mouth every month, the stress shows in their faces and it's not a pretty sight.

 

[plastictaffy]

Struggle to see the appeal of that job I must confess - and for a lot less money than drivers get.

Because for many (myself included) it's a step on the career ladder to being a driver.
Let's look at the pro's for a moment, in order of importance to me:
4 day, 36 hour week.
Rarely see a manager - no-one to answer to on a day-by-day basis.
Varied shifts. Some weeks I start at 0400, other weeks I finish at 0230.
The camararderie - certainly at my TOC we all have a good laugh and help each other out.
The fact that my office whizzes through the Chiltern Hills at 100mph - beats whizzing through a warehouse at 5mph.....
The travel perks.
The final salary pension - as rare as rocking horse s*** these days.
30k a year, when in my last job I was paid 22k.

Now the con's
Occasionally a customer might get the hump and have a go at you.
Too many "managers" that have read about railways on the internet, but have no idea how it works.
Getting out of bed at 0315 in the winter.
Erm, and that's about it.

If you come into this industry with an obsession for earning as much money as possible, you will come a cropper - I've seen both Guards and drivers do it in the nearly three years I've been on. Come in to the job, enjoy it, and go with the flow. Too many people I know of take work far too seriously.

 

[Bromley boy]

Because for many (myself included) it's a step on the career ladder to being a driver.
Let's look at the pro's for a moment, in order of importance to me:
4 day, 36 hour week.
Rarely see a manager - no-one to answer to on a day-by-day basis.
Varied shifts. Some weeks I start at 0400, other weeks I finish at 0230.
The camararderie - certainly at my TOC we all have a good laugh and help each other out.
The fact that my office whizzes through the Chiltern Hills at 100mph - beats whizzing through a warehouse at 5mph.....
The travel perks.
The final salary pension - as rare as rocking horse s*** these days.
30k a year, when in my last job I was paid 22k.

Now the con's
Occasionally a customer might get the hump and have a go at you.
Too many "managers" that have read about railways on the internet, but have no idea how it works.
Getting out of bed at 0315 in the winter.
Erm, and that's about it.

If you come into this industry with an obsession for earning as much money as possible, you will come a cropper - I've seen both Guards and drivers do it in the nearly three years I've been on. Come in to the job, enjoy it, and go with the flow. Too many people I know of take work far too seriously.

Yes - my previous comment wasn't meant to be disparaging of the guard role, apologies if it read that way. More a general comment that the guards have to put up with a lot, potentially more than the drivers from what I've witnessed in my years of commuting.

 

[plastictaffy]

I didn't see it as disparaging - merely explaining why people decide to become Guards. I personally think that a lot depends on how you are to people you come into contact with. If you are a bit knobbish, you'll get knobbish treatment. I know of a couple of Guards like that - one of which has had more than his fair share of quite serious (occasionally physical) abuse. He comes across very much as thinking he's better than others.

 

[red2005]

I didn't see it as disparaging - merely explaining why people decide to become Guards. I personally think that a lot depends on how you are to people you come into contact with. If you are a bit knobbish, you'll get knobbish treatment. I know of a couple of Guards like that - one of which has had more than his fair share of quite serious (occasionally physical) abuse. He comes across very much as thinking he's better than others.

if people are decent, know the meaning of discretion and speak to people as they wish to be spoken to they will make really good guards.

from my experience it's the ones that take things personally,to heart Or those that chase the money/commission that have the most problems.......I've witnessed guards going hell for leather over 2 quid fares and nearly have their teeth knocked out!.........It's incidents like these that make the railway so keen to employ people with common sense and people skills over those with A- levels and other qualifications coming out of their ears (especially in safety crit roles).

Academic qualifications do nothing but show you are half decent in a classroom.....It's common sense that is the difference between there being an incident or not in safety critical roles.

 

[notadriver]

I didn't see it as disparaging - merely explaining why people decide to become Guards. I personally think that a lot depends on how you are to people you come into contact with. If you are a bit knobbish, you'll get knobbish treatment. I know of a couple of Guards like that - one of which has had more than his fair share of quite serious (occasionally physical) abuse. He comes across very much as thinking he's better than others.

What worries me about the guards role is how secure it will be in the future if the Javelins and their on board managers are anything to go by.

 

[Greenback]

Sorry guys, this isn't really the right place to start discussing the guards role and what may happen in the future. Please keep on topic!