P&O Ferries to permanently stop accepting foot passengers on their Dover to Calais route.

[AdamWW]

ABB are working on one ....
https://new.abb.com/marine/systems-and-solutions/electric-solutions/shore-connection

From the first video:
View attachment 124702

The (nicely rail connected) Harwich-Hook of Holland ferry plugs in at both ends so they can use shore power for the electrical supply. I believe ABB provided the hardware.

 

[AndrewE]

On the Shuttle, bikes are carried in Eurotunnel transit-sized vans, large enough to take 4 cyclists and their bikes, plus the Eurotunnel driver. See the Eurotunnel bike carriage page for details.

Unfortunately that page doesn't work properly: it says select your journey from a drop-down box, except that there isn't one...
It also says

To make a reservation, click here and select the cycle service from the drop-down menu and complete the request form. Once complete a member of our Customer Support Team will be in touch.

and

On the day of your crossing, arrive 15 minutes ahead of the minibus departure time at the pick-up/drop-off points mentioned below. There are set local times for this, so be sure you arrive at the right one.

In the UK the pick-up/drop-off point for cyclists is at the Holiday Inn Express Folkestone - Channel Tunnel at 08:00

which implies that a cyclist has the "choice" of 1 service a day. Their advice

Directions for cyclists travelling by train​

Alight at Folkestone West Railway Station.
Turn left out of the station onto Station Road, turn left into Cheriton Road going into Cheriton High Street. Take the left turn (towards Tesco). Continue on this road, straight over the traffic lights, and you will find the Holiday Inn Express hotel on your left.

is probably irrelevant as I doubt that many people will be able to arrive at Folkestone before 07.30!

 

[paul1609]

The (nicely rail connected) Harwich-Hook of Holland ferry plugs in at both ends so they can use shore power for the electrical supply. I believe ABB provided the hardware.

Shore power for the hotel loads whilst alongside are 1 thing easily achieved, rapid charging for the propulsion energy required for a channel crossing is rather more problematic.

 

[zwk500]

Shore power for the hotel loads whilst alongside are 1 thing easily achieved, rapid charging for the propulsion energy required for a channel crossing is rather more problematic.

Especially at Dover, where short turnrounds are critical.

 

[AdamWW]

Especially at Dover, where short turnrounds are critical.

I would have thought the power required would be somewhat larger.

They could add Flettner rotors and use wind power directly when it's breezy enough.

 

[Jim the Jim]

I suspect that rather than trying to combine vehicle and foot traffic on one train, with all the problems that creates for boarding etc, the easiest way to accommodate foot passengers through the tunnel might be to have a separate conventional passenger train. Of course this is in fact how things work right now, except that it's been decided that allowing passenger boarding at Dover and Calais doesn't make commercial/operational sense.

 

[Trainbike46]

I suspect that rather than trying to combine vehicle and foot traffic on one train, with all the problems that creates for boarding etc, the easiest way to accommodate foot passengers through the tunnel might be to have a separate conventional passenger train. Of course this is in fact how things work right now, except that it's been decided that allowing passenger boarding at Dover and Calais doesn't make commercial/operational sense.

That is exactly what they did; only the foot passenger trains depart from St Pancras International in the UK or Lille Europe (and others) in France

 

[AdamWW]

That is exactly what they did; only the foot passenger trains depart from St Pancras International in the UK or Lille Europe (and others) in France

Yes that's what the post you quoted said.

 

[Trainbike46]

Yes that's what the post you quoted said.

oh **** you're right. I may not be fully awake yet

 

[ashkeba]

It also says

and

which implies that a cyclist has the "choice" of 1 service a day. Their advice

is probably irrelevant as I doubt that many people will be able to arrive at Folkestone before 07.30!

It feels like a deal has been done to sell more rooms at the Holiday Inn.

 

[dazzler]

Unfortunately that page doesn't work properly: it says select your journey from a drop-down box, except that there isn't one...
It also says

and

which implies that a cyclist has the "choice" of 1 service a day. Their advice

is probably irrelevant as I doubt that many people will be able to arrive at Folkestone before 07.30!

That's because before covid there were two crossings in each direction every day (From memory, roughly 08:30 and around 14:30? from Folkestone & 12:30 and 18:30? from Coquelles). During covid the service was removed, but has now been re-introduced with an initial one crossing each way per day. According to the cycling press, the intention is to return to two crossings each way per day in the near future (although no timescale has been given for that).

It is more than likely that the instructions on the web page have not been updated to reflect the current single journey per day.

 

[fandroid]

What is there at Coquelles to enable a continuation of a journey with, say, a folding bike?

 

[dazzler]

What is there at Coquelles to enable a continuation of a journey with, say, a folding bike?

The Coquelles drop off point is about 20-30 minutes ride from Calais Fréthun station, where you can get TGVs to Lille and Paris, or the Intercité (or is this a TER now?) to Paris via Amiens, as well as TER services around the local area, including Calais and Boulogne among others. Alternatively, Calais Ville is about the same distance/time in the opposite direction.

 

[Frontera2]

It looks like P&O may have had a change of heart or the original rumour was false.. Their website is now allowing foot passenger bookings in 2023, whereas previously they had stopped selling them after 23rd of this month....

 

[Joe Paxton]

It looks like P&O may have had a change of heart or the original rumour was false.. Their website is now allowing foot passenger bookings in 2023, whereas previously they had stopped selling them after 23rd of this month....

This is good news.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm by no means an expert here, but my understanding is that they are. At the very least they haven't done the thing P&O did earlier this year where they fired everyone without notice

DFDS on Dover-Calais was originally SeaFrance (ex-SNCF), then MyFerryLink (Eurotunnel) before being sold to DFDS.
Unravelling the crew terms and conditions would be a complex business, if any of the original (mainly French) crew is still there.
Irish Ferries now also operate the route, and they were the first regional ferry company to go for fire and rehire with a low-cost foreign crew, in 2005.

 

[Trainbike46]

It looks like P&O may have had a change of heart or the original rumour was false.. Their website is now allowing foot passenger bookings in 2023, whereas previously they had stopped selling them after 23rd of this month....

They confirmed on twitter to seat61 that the foot passenger crossing were to continue, and that ticket sales would reopen. Good to hear though that this has happened now

 

[sbf kent]

As I understand P&O are changing to a coach that will drive on drive off the ferry - as replacing the walk on walk off. In effect foot passengers will embark and disembark via the car deck, after being collected from and taken to the terminal. This should simplify the operation?

Much work is currently being done to understand how to decarbonise ferries, this was the first project:

Dover Clean Ferry project

 

[Blindtraveler]

A bit of a screeching you turn for them put a good one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I understand P&O are changing to a coach that will drive on drive off the ferry - as replacing the walk on walk off. In effect foot passengers will embark and disembark via the car deck, after being collected from and taken to the terminal. This should simplify the operation?

Much work is currently being done to understand how to decarbonise ferries, this was the first project:

Dover Clean Ferry project

That was always done for years, at least at quieter times. The upside of it was that other than the bus itself and someone to drive it all the rest of the infrastructure is shared with that provided for taking your own coach on.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

At Dover there was always a bus to take you the fair distance from the terminal to the gangway tower, but at Calais you could walk to the terminal. In recent years at Calais, however, the gangway always seemed to be out of action and a bus from the car deck was used instead. This was always incredibly frustrating as you always were 'last off' yet could see the terminal. It is also a pain using the (narrow) stairs to descend to the car deck with luggage or queuing for the lifts. 'Golden Arrow' service it ain't.

 

[RT4038]

At Dover there was always a bus to take you the fair distance from the terminal to the gangway tower, but at Calais you could walk to the terminal. In recent years at Calais, however, the gangway always seemed to be out of action and a bus from the car deck was used instead. This was always incredibly frustrating as you always were 'last off' yet could see the terminal. It is also a pain using the (narrow) stairs to descend to the car deck with luggage or queuing for the lifts. 'Golden Arrow' service it ain't.

I expect that, at Calais, passengers walking from the ship to the terminal has been risk assessed and decided too great a risk. Presumably the bus cannot get onto the ship to collect the foot pax until all (or most) of the other vehicles are off, hence the wait. I think 'Golden Arrow' service is provided by E* and does not involve P&O.

 

[sbf kent]

I expect that, at Calais, passengers walking from the ship to the terminal has been risk assessed and decided too great a risk. Presumably the bus cannot get onto the ship to collect the foot pax until all (or most) of the other vehicles are off, hence the wait. I think 'Golden Arrow' service is provided by E* and does not involve P&O.

I understand the bus will stay on the ferry for the crossing.

 

[StephenHunter]

I expect that, at Calais, passengers walking from the ship to the terminal has been risk assessed and decided too great a risk. Presumably the bus cannot get onto the ship to collect the foot pax until all (or most) of the other vehicles are off, hence the wait. I think 'Golden Arrow' service is provided by E* and does not involve P&O.

The Golden Arrow was the Eurostar of its day in terms of speed and rolling stock, along with the other boat trains.

 

[AdamWW]

I understand the bus will stay on the ferry for the crossing.

That would be useful if you could leave your luggage on it.

Even more useful if it ran to/from the nearest railway station at each end...

 

[nw1]

It has been reported online that P&O Ferries are going to be permanently banning foot passengers from the Dover to Calais ferries from the beginning of next year. There does not seem to be an official statement published for this yet but i have spoken to someone from P&O who has confirmed this is the case. So there is only about a month left of allowing foot passengers on this route.

This means that you will need to use the Newhaven to Dieppe ferry from now on if you are a foot passenger. This is really your only option now. It is a great ferry and quite cheap too but it adds a lot of time to your journey for a lot of destinations.

Alternatively you can continue to use the ferries from Dover to Calais or from Dover to Dunkirk run by any of the three operators (DFDS Ferries or P&O Ferries or Irish Ferries) simply by using your bicycle. They all still accept bicycle passengers and you just go to the same place that the cars go. So that is a simple option to get around it if you still want to use this route.

I do recommend the Newhaven to Dieppe ferry as this is quite a nice pleasant route and an enjoyable ferry ride. I normally use this route. Newhaven itself is a complete and utter dump but Dieppe is actually quite nice. The train ride from Dieppe to Rouen and onwards from Rouen to Paris or wherever is quite a nice scenic ride too.

On the Newhaven to Dieppe route they have always accepted foot passengers at all times even on the night sailings. In fact during the corona virus when all of the other cross channel ferries at various ports suspended foot passengers onboard the Newhaven to Dieppe ferry continued to accept foot passengers. It was the only foot passenger ferry for a while. So i think it is unlikely that the Newhaven to Dieppe route will stop accepting foot passengers.

Also on the Newhaven to Dieppe route foot passengers are charged a flat rate regardless of whether you book in advance online or just turn up at the ferry port before your ferry and purchase right there:

£31.00 - Single
£46.00 - Return (within 0-5 days)
£56.00 - Return (within 5-10 days)
£62.00 - Return (within 10+ days)

This does seem very cheap, compare that with Red Funnel fares to the IoW, a domestic route with a considerably smaller distance, but the price of a standard single (£18.90) is more than half that to Dieppe. Plus there does not appear to be a foot passenger period return of any sort to the IoW, the cost presumably being two singles. That said, there is a cheap off-peak day return at £11.20 if you travel as a pair and leave after 10.55am.

(see https://www.redfunnel.co.uk/en/isle-of-wight-ferry/fares/passenger-fares-to-the-isle-of-wight/)

How many people really need to cross the Channel on a whim?

Foot pax travel on P&O was grim anyway. No luggage checkin, lots of standing around and immigration staff treating you like an illegal.

That's part of the job description of immigration staff isn't it? (Of whatever country).

 

[Medicy]

It seems there are far fewer sailings available for foot passengers however - previously you could get them all day between approx. 08:00-20:00, whereas now you seem to be limited to a maximum of three sailings each way (and it seems like less outside of spring/summer). Still, it's better than nothing and a day return is still possible.

 

[dutchflyer]

So if it goes ahead like that it will mean mr. Mark Smith of seat61 has to do again a lot of re-writing and adapting his site and suggested travelplans.
Myself not overly only bound to trains: the ALT of a through coach/bus from LON all the way into the continent would never be contemplated¨ ´I have my pass/staff-privilege!´'

 

[johncrossley]

So if it goes ahead like that it will mean mr. Mark Smith of seat61 has to do again a lot of re-writing and adapting his site and suggested travelplans.
Myself not overly only bound to trains: the ALT of a through coach/bus from LON all the way into the continent would never be contemplated¨ ´I have my pass/staff-privilege!´'

It is fair to say that Seat 61 is very biased against coach travel. In western Europe trains are normally the main form of inter-city public transport, but there are regions where the coach is useful, for example Ireland, the north of the Nordics, the Baltics and the Balkans. Seat 61 never discusses such options. Cross-Channel coaches are a lot more sensible than using the Dover-Calais ferry, given the severe limitations of the ferry nowadays, but again are not mentioned by Seat 61.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's part of the job description of immigration staff isn't it? (Of whatever country).

I find them generally somewhere between disinterested and welcoming. These ones weren't, they were downright abrasive.