Pacer performance

[YorkshireBear]

Could anyone (drivers?) tell me what acceleration is like on pacers compared to 150's and other units they mingle with?

 

[northwichcat]

One thing that might be of interest is a Pacer filling in for a 323 that stops at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme can hold up the following service even if it departs Stockport/Manchester Piccadilly on time.

 

[O L Leigh]

Same drivetrain but less weight. Provided it doesn't encounter any slip then I would imagine the Pacer would edge it.

O L Leigh

 

[Drsatan]

The 143s in particular have notoriously slow acceleration. I traveled on the 0932 from Exeter St D to Cardiff which was worked by a 143 and it took forever to accelerate to 75mph upon leaving Exeter, even though the line from Exeter to Taunton is fairly flat.

 

[142094]

Pacers have a lot of problems in the autumn with leaves on the line and wheelslip. Penistone line is one of the worst lines for it.

I normally don't notice that much difference between a 142 and 150 on some lines, although when a Pacer is full and standing you can notice the difference too.

 

[BestWestern]

One thing that might be of interest is a Pacer filling in for a 323 that stops at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme can hold up the following service even if it departs Stockport/Manchester Piccadilly on time.

Electric traction will generally be capable of better acceleration than anything with an engine. 143's are noticeably better on the Severn Beach run than a 150, they have a 'nippy' quality which is useful for short bursts of acceleration between frequent station calls. The doors are also considerably quicker than on any Sprinter unit, which is a big help where station dwell times are concerned. As with any fleet of vehicles, each one will differ depending on it's condition and upkeep.

 

[brillopad]

Pacers have a lot of problems in the autumn with leaves on the line and wheelslip. Penistone line is one of the worst lines for it.

I normally don't notice that much difference between a 142 and 150 on some lines, although when a Pacer is full and standing you can notice the difference too.

I remember an Exmouth bound driver reporting that if he accelerated (a 142) (on leaves) nothing happened and similarly if he braked nothing happened - he was concerned what would happen on reaching Exmouth which is a terminus.

 

[driver9000]

It depends on the individual unit, some are better than others but on average they are about the same with the 142 being a bit quicker on initially starting away and when running on the torque converter. In poor rail conditions 14x are horrible whereas 150s are fairly sure-footed I've only rarely had a slide in a 150 and they were very short ones too.

 

[northwichcat]

143's are noticeably better on the Severn Beach run than a 150, they have a 'nippy' quality which is useful for short bursts of acceleration between frequent station calls.

In the Northern Rail area where a service is packed a Pacer really struggles to move off and probably loses about 1 minute every 5 miles while a 150 has no problems moving off when there are 200 people on board.

 

[142094]

I remember an Exmouth bound driver reporting that if he accelerated (a 142) (on leaves) nothing happened and similarly if he braked nothing happened - he was concerned what would happen on reaching Exmouth which is a terminus.

That incident a couple of years back involving a FGW 142 not stopping in time and hitting another unit in the platform was attributed to leaves and also gritting salt on the line.

 

[strange6]

It depends on the individual unit, some are better than others but on average they are about the same with the 142 being a bit quicker on initially starting away and when running on the torque converter. In poor rail conditions 14x are horrible whereas 150s are fairly sure-footed I've only rarely had a slide in a 150 and they were very short ones too.

Going up the long drag that is from Salford Crescent to Bolton, I do notice that the pacers do struggle for top speed compared to the 150 or 156's, even when the throttle is wide open. This will be down to a lack of engine torque most probably- see this page

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=57

It's no wonder somebody has pointed out that the Class 143 has lousy acceleration seeing that it weighs considerably more than a 142, powered by the same engine. The Sprinters have more powerful engines and probably more lb/ft of torque which would explain why they can gain top speed up a brew. But I would say the 142, with it's relatively low weight would be the slightly quicker in terms of acceleration.

 

[notadriver]

Those 150s seem to vary so much between units compared to EMUs. 150123 is a good 'un

 

[Anvil1984]

In the Northern Rail area where a service is packed a Pacer really struggles to move off and probably loses about 1 minute every 5 miles while a 150 has no problems moving off when there are 200 people on board.

True, worst line I work 14xs on is the Harrogate line, in leaf fall season you never know if your going to get round Crimple Curve

 

[Yew]

Those 150s seem to vary so much between units compared to EMUs. 150123 is a good 'un

Im sorry, you are wrong. You want 150140

 

[northwichcat]

True, worst line I work 14xs on is the Harrogate line, in leaf fall season you never know if your going to get round Crimple Curve

In leaf fall season the Mid-Cheshire line is also bad, especially in the Chester-Manchester direction. The line goes through Delamere Forest so as you'd expect it can lose time there. However, in the Manchester direction the extra time for leaf fall is added in at Stockport, meaning that if it loses time through Delamere then it can't make any up for almost an hour. That really goes to show the leaf fall time is there for meeting punctuality figures rather than for the benefit of the passengers.

 

[notadriver]

Im sorry, you are wrong. You want 150140

Is it? Where is it now / what route was it on?

 

[yummy125]

I saw a double header "Pacer" in York yesterday & it was funny seeing it sway & trying to change gear out the station.

 

[driver9000]

I saw a double header "Pacer" in York yesterday & it was funny seeing it sway & trying to change gear out the station.

They don't have gears as such, the transmission is a two stage torque converter/flywheel system with the change happening around 45mph. If you were hearing the power 'dipping' then it may have been detecting wheel slip (speed probes going out of sync)

 

[strange6]

They don't have gears as such, the transmission is a two stage torque converter/flywheel system with the change happening around 45mph. If you were hearing the power 'dipping' then it may have been detecting wheel slip (speed probes going out of sync)

We had a 142 struggling uphill a couple of weeks ago. Wouldn't go past circa 40mph with the engine buzzing away. Very slow accelerating from stand still too. Something was wrong with it I'm almost certain

 

[driver9000]

Some are better than others. The Climb from Salford Crescent to Farnworth Tunnel is a good testing ground for units - 75mph by Kearsley station is fantastic, 70mph is the norm and anything 65mph and under isn't doing so well.

 

[strange6]

Some are better than others. The Climb from Salford Crescent to Farnworth Tunnel is a good testing ground for units - 75mph by Kearsley station is fantastic, 70mph is the norm and anything 65mph and under isn't doing so well.

Yes, they have no problem coming from Bolton but coming from the Crescent, they do tend to struggle. Incidently, there was a very nasty patch at Clifton on the run down from Bolton that made the 142's violently sway from side to side at speed up until a few weeks ago. I don't notice it now. Have network rail fixed it or was it in my imagination ?

 

[Yew]

Is it? Where is it now / what route was it on?

I don't know at the minuite as I've lost it . But it's one of the refurbs with facing chapman seating and. The corridor bus bench still in place. Always gives a friendly atmosphere. Much better than any Other sprinter class . Sorry if my last post seemed rude btw

 

[Nym]

Yeah, all these pacers and sprinters fight it out on the way up to Kearsley, and then a 185 comes fast through salford crescent and then has to slam the brakes on for the warning signals becuse the pacer infont is only doing 60.

Pacers are definatly slower then 156s, I can say this with all certainty because whenever I was coming home from work, if I was on a pacer it was a near certain bet that I'd be 4 late into Bolton on the way to Southport. 150s I'd say the're nearly on a par with, if not having 150s slightly faster.

I'm not going to start having a go about pacers through, they get me to work in a morning and back on an evening in relative speed and comfort, I'd rather be on the nice 4 or somtimes 6 carrage train that shows up and has a pacer or two in the diagram, rather than the single 150 that would turn up otherwise. Have grown to accept that we're not going to get anything new in the north asside from the 323s and 185s. If they wanted more passengers on rails in the North it would be easy, order 300 172 carrages in 3 car formation, replace all pacers with them, and order some more for stronger and new services, and re-open some lines, make some P&R stations bigger, done. Alas, none of this will happen in the next 5 years so I'm destined to continue having to sit in traffic every morning to get to work in Trafford Park because there isn't any decent P/T to get there.

 

[notadriver]

I don't know at the minuite as I've lost it . But it's one of the refurbs with facing chapman seating and. The corridor bus bench still in place. Always gives a friendly atmosphere. Much better than any Other sprinter class . Sorry if my last post seemed rude btw

That's okay! Well 150123 is the only one I remember as I've had a go on it

 

[voyagerdude220]

Hi 'Notadriver', 150140 is today on 0644 ish/1044 ish/1444 ish/ 1844 ish Blackpool S to Colne's. (As of 0725 today)