Paper tickets looking a bit retro

[trek]

They infested Waterloo some time ago sadly, I have a bog roll ticket from the 25th October 2022

Interesting, do SWR guard's also now use printed roll? They were one of the hold outs, but perhaps it's now only GTR and I think Southeastern (and maybe GWR? Can't remember...)

If you wanted to buy a ticket with a Maltese Cross valid on LU, do they still have the old machines to print CCST?

Yeah, they also need to have them to print things like season tickets, railcards and Gold Cards

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is it performed simply by scanning the card without further input?

On Flowbird machines, yes. Not sure about others

 

[Class172]

Interesting, do SWR guard's also now use printed roll? They were one of the hold outs, but perhaps it's now only GTR and I think Southeastern (and maybe GWR? Can't remember...)

My experience of buying tickets in GWR territory has been that it was issued on printed roll.

 

[Joe Paxton]

And near enough everyone under the age of about 30 (possibly 40) carries their mobile phone at all times, thus using it for other purposes makes sense.

Though try leaving your phone at home some time. Once you get over the withdrawal symptoms, it's pretty liberating (and then you might even start questioning the previously accepted and unspoken perma-attachment!).

 

[Alex365Dash]

KeyGo is indeed added at a gate or validator. As far as I can tell, this is, and always had been, the only way to do it. Mine shows up on my card as a Flexismart Standard.

When I last got my Key smartcard reissued (lost my last one) I re-enabled KeyGo and simply added it by loading it on an app - I can’t remember whether it was the Southern app or the National Rail Smartcard Manager app!

 

[Ediswan]

When I last got my Key smartcard reissued (lost my last one) I re-enabled KeyGo and simply added it by loading it on an app - I can’t remember whether it was the Southern app or the National Rail Smartcard Manager app!

All I can say for sure is what I was told when I signed up for keyGo last month:

To activate keyGo, you must make your first journey in the next 30 days. keyGo will be loaded when you touch in with your Key Smartcard on a card reader at your chosen station.

Maybe an app was an option, but not mentioned. Maybe an app is only an option for replacements (after that first journey activation has occured).

 

[MrJeeves]

All I can say for sure is what I was told when I signed up for keyGo last month:

Maybe an app was an option, but not mentioned. Maybe an app is only an option for replacements (after that first journey activation has occured).

keyGo can be loaded from a phone even before first journey — that's how I did mine. They don't advertise it, though.

 

[Ediswan]

keyGo can be loaded from a phone even before first journey — that's how I did mine. They don't advertise it, though.

Out of interest, as not advertised, how did you discover this was possible ?

 

[MrJeeves]

Out of interest, as not advertised, how did you discover this was possible ?

Was just aware of the app and thought it was worth a go!

 

[FenMan]

There are two different systems in play here.

KeyGo is indeed added at a gate or validator. As far as I can tell, this is, and always had been, the only way to do it. Mine shows up on my card as a Flexismart Standard.

I believe @SussexSeagull was referring to a pre-purchased ticket. The instructions say you can use a TVM to load these (as well as validators and gates). Maybe those instructions are getting garbled.

Personally, I would probably choose to use a TVM rather than a gate to load a pre-purchased ticket, as that provides the opportunity to check the correct ticket has actually loaded. Can't comment on what validators are able to show, I rarely come across them.

I continue to be confused by smartcard ticketing, as the online guidance provided by various TOCs appears to conflate very different use cases. A particular issue is the guidance on "loading", "activating" and "tapping in", which can be interpreted as meaning the same thing or quite different things depending on which TOC site is being read.

So far as I can tell, there are 3 categories of ITSO smartcard tickets. Putting on one side pay as you go functionality and season/flexi-season tickets, my confusion concerns normal walk-up single and day return tickets and out-boundary Travelcards . These are what i buy. I load them onto a GWR Touch smartcard using the GWR app and the phone's NFC functionality before setting off to the station.

My local station is unstaffed and ungated. The only yellow validator is on the front of the TVM. So far as I can tell, there is no flag set on the smartcard to say I've commenced my journey regardless of whether I tap in or not, as tapping in only displays the details of my ticket on the screen. Erm, thanks, I knew that already.

As tapping in can be a pain to do if there's a queue to use the TVM, I no longer bother. However, every TOC says I "must activate" and/or "tap in" before starting my journey. But I've had no issues whatsoever whenever a guard conducts an onboard ticket check or when exiting via a gateline on arrival.

Am I breaking the rules? Or is the guidance published online failing to adequately cover the different use cases and widely varying facilities available (or not) at stations? Could it be made clearer so more Joe and Josephine Normals understand the value of using smartcards and improve take-up?

 

[MrJeeves]

I continue to be confused by smartcard ticketing, as the online guidance provided by various TOCs appears to conflate very different use cases. A particular issue is the guidance on "loading", "activating" and "tapping in", which can be interpreted as meaning the same thing or quite different things depending on which TOC site is being read.

So far as I can tell, there are 3 categories of ITSO smartcard tickets. Putting on one side pay as you go functionality and season/flexi-season tickets, my confusion concerns normal walk-up single and day return tickets and out-boundary Travelcards . These are what i buy. I load them onto a GWR Touch smartcard using the GWR app and the phone's NFC functionality before setting off to the station.

My local station is unstaffed and ungated. The only yellow validator is on the front of the TVM. So far as I can tell, there is no flag set on the smartcard to say I've commenced my journey regardless of whether I tap in or not, as tapping in only displays the details of my ticket on the screen. Erm, thanks, I knew that already.

As tapping in can be a pain to do if there's a queue to use the TVM, I no longer bother. However, every TOC says I "must activate" and/or "tap in" before starting my journey. But I've had no issues whatsoever whenever a guard conducts an onboard ticket check or when exiting via a gateline on arrival.

Am I breaking the rules? Or is the guidance published online failing to adequately cover the different use cases and widely varying facilities available (or not) at stations? Could it be made clearer so more Joe and Josephine Normals understand the value of using smartcards and improve take-up?

There's no hard requirement to touch in and out (and your touched on the TVM are meaningless in this sense, and do not constitute a tap in/out).

I believe the main reasoning behind the tapping being required is for flexi seasons (likely also the references to activating are these, as flexis need to be activated before use) as well as PAYG systems.

Normal tickets are valid as expected without touches in or out. If you have a normal ticket and PAYG, this is where issues can arise, though.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Is it also the case that the time for Smartcard ticketing has already come and gone?

Certainly around these parts (the West Mids) and amongst people who travel at commuter time, the number of people tapping a smartcard on the reader seems to now be vastly eclipsed by the number of people hovering their phone over the Aztec code reader at the gates. The number of people with either CCST tickets or bog roll tickets, certainly at commuter time, is vanishingly small.

Personally, in my history commuting into Birmingham, I've gone from:

* A season ticket on CCST to...
* A season ticket on a (Swift) Smartcard to...
* A flexi-season loaded from my phone onto a (LNWR) Smartcard to...
* A flexi-season on my phone, displayed as an Aztec code in the WMR app.

I recognise it's horses for courses and different areas / different local transport bodies / different TOCs are at different places with digital ticketing, but it seems that around here Smartcard ticketing has been eclipsed before it had ever really taken hold.

Of course TfWM are (or were) still talking up having multi-modal PAYG on a Smartcard, presumably another incarnation of Swift, so perhaps that's the application for Smartcards, rather than commuting? But could probably also be done in an app if the will existed.

 

[Birmingham]

Is it also the case that the time for Smartcard ticketing has already come and gone?

Certainly around these parts (the West Mids) and amongst people who travel at commuter time, the number of people tapping a smartcard on the reader seems to now be vastly eclipsed by the number of people hovering their phone over the Aztec code reader at the gates. The number of people with either CCST tickets or bog roll tickets, certainly at commuter time, is vanishingly small.

Personally, in my history commuting into Birmingham, I've gone from:

* A season ticket on CCST to...
* A season ticket on a (Swift) Smartcard to...
* A flexi-season loaded from my phone onto a (LNWR) Smartcard to...
* A flexi-season on my phone, displayed as an Aztec code in the WMR app.

I recognise it's horses for courses and different areas / different local transport bodies / different TOCs are at different places with digital ticketing, but it seems that around here Smartcard ticketing has been eclipsed before it had ever really taken hold.

It may be back in the West Mids when PAYG lands.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

@Birmingham I edited my post to mention PAYG as you posted that - great minds!

 

[FenMan]

There's no hard requirement to touch in and out (and your touched on the TVM are meaningless in this sense, and do not constitute a tap in/out).

Normal tickets are valid as expected without touches in or out. If you have a normal ticket and PAYG, this is where issues can arise, though.

As i suspected, but the terms and conditions of use say otherwise.

Why does the railway put itself in a position of imposing self-defeating needless complexity? Just say a smartcard is a ticket wallet with some extra features that may be useful for some travellers, instead of "you must do this useless thing, you must do that useless thing, otherwise you could face the full wrath of the railway, backed by law"?

Have these people ever worked in the real private sector? I have, for many years, and would be demanding a quick, and fundamental, change of attitude and, if it didn't change, those concerned would be removed from the team in short order. That's how capitalism works folks. Doing anything else would be just wasting time, energy and resource on something that's relatively trivial to fix, while inaction would continue to confuse some customers. and put many more off the idea completely

 

[xotGD]

A ticket that fits in a credit card slot in your wallet and opens the barriers at the station. Perfect. So let's get rid of it.


While most of my fellow commuters are happy to have their frog* on their phone these days, these are the folk who cause a pile up at the ticket barriers because they can't get the thing to scan.

For those with digital railcards it is also more of a faff when their tickets are being checked as they can't display both at the same time, which of course is simple with the physical equivalents.


*Ticket

 

[pokemonsuper9]

For those with digital railcards it is also more of a faff when their tickets are being checked as they can't display both at the same time, which of course is simple with the physical equivalents.

I can absolutely agree with this, ticket checks on my commute (when asked for railcard) can take a bit longer while I change app, but with a paper ticket like when I need to travel through London I can just have them both out at once.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can absolutely agree with this, ticket checks on my commute (when asked for railcard) can take a bit longer while I change app, but with a paper ticket like when I need to travel through London I can just have them both out at once.

I find a better solution to that is an e-ticket with a plastic Railcard.

 

[yorksrob]

I think that if we had something like the German fifty quid a month unlimited travel, I could be persuaded away from the good old CCST.

(gauntlet thrown down).