Passenger "Mutiny" Due To Missed Stop At Swindon

[Djgr]

So having read through the entire thread, I can conclude that absolutely no improvements will happen, and this sort of incident will recur in the future.

No other industry in the UK gets away with producing so many regular customer service catastrophes.

Or to sum up TOC makes a big mistake (e.g. no staff, no train, collapsing infrastructure-the usual), compounds this with another mistake, compounds this with another mistake.

Passengers suffer. TOC says "what's the big issue?"

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am still trying to understand why a crush loaded train is unsafe.

If the guard needs to work from the passenger compartment (as they do on 80x) they might not be able to do that properly.

 

[Bluejays]

Gwr guards are able and allowed to dispatch from the cab

 

[Parallel]

I speculate that announcements were made however the quality of the PA for manual announcements probably meant that not everyone heard them . And the likelihood of hearing them was dependent on the position you were in the carriage , how loaded the carriage was and weather you were doing something to not pay attention to them (eg listening to.music or reading a book)

This. If the train is full with lots of people chatting etc then it is near on impossible to hear the PIS. Also, the volume seems to fluctuate by unit. The reason some people heard the announcement after Swindon but not Bath is probably because many were actively listening out from it.

Ive been at a station before when there’s been a platform alteration announced, and then overheard someone complain that there had been ‘no announcements’ in relation to the platform change

 

[Bikeman78]

If there was going to be a net inflow of passengers (more people getting on than off), then I can see why the Swindon stop was missed, as it would have exacerbated an already serious overcrowding problem.

There was an eight car 387 starting at Swindon at 1911 so I doubt many would have got on the diverted train there. I doubt it was even on the information screens as it wasn't originally booked to stop there. Chippenham could have been a problem though. I have no idea if the bigger flow is Bristol/Bath to Chippenham or Chippenham to Swindon/Paddington at that time on a Sunday.

 

[Sm5]

I can confirm that there was absolutely no announcement on the train that it would not be calling at Swindon (or Chippenham).

The crew I believe reported a fault with the PA in some coaches.

If crew the reported the PA was not working, how did the crew expect passengers to be informed, knowing it wasnt working ?


A pre-covid London commuter is engrained to expect a train arriving being so full that one can neither board or alight from the first several trains that stop in front of oneself, until they “get lucky” and successfully find a space.. Chippenham and Swindon I doubt it would be close to that kind of situation faced by commuters at Bank, Liverpool St, Farringdon on a pre-covid daily basis…

in my mind stopping, and the inevitable delayed dwell times whilst everyone sorted themselves out would have been a better outcome than not stopping… yes there would have been grunts and groans, some may have been denied space, but more people would have got home, without the fuss, drama and media…

The pictures of the crowding looked no worse than your average Cardiff -Manchester service on a daily basis, and i’m sure many others would have their own journey experiences that match that same level of “optimium capacity” as seen here.

 

[Wolfie]

If crew the reported the PA was not working, how did the crew expect passengers to be informed, knowing it wasnt working ?

Quite. Smacks of a rather too convenient excuse.

 

[43096]

Quite. Smacks of a rather too convenient excuse.

I’d also ask if that was reported to control at the time and whether the rules on DOTE (defective on train equipment) were applied.

 

[Tomnick]

I’d also ask if that was reported to control at the time and whether the rules on DOTE (defective on train equipment) were applied.

I'd have thought it likely that the faults, if there were any, were identified after the event, presumably on the basis of numerous passengers claiming that they hadn't heard any announcements.

I'd ask whether there's a robust procedure for identifying any PA faults on prep.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'd ask whether there's a robust procedure for identifying any PA faults on prep.

Don't be silly..



...GSMR

 

[800001]

No they can’t. The guard on an 800 series has to work from a local door

The train managers can work them from the rear cab, they certainly do on Lner fairly frequently.

 

[Sm5]

I'd have thought it likely that the faults, if there were any, were identified after the event, presumably on the basis of numerous passengers claiming that they hadn't heard any announcements.

I'd ask whether there's a robust procedure for identifying any PA faults on prep.

But that doesnt fit with passengers tweets to the GWR site who indicate communications were made after the event, (1) informing of the issues with passenger alarms, (2) returning to Swindon and (3) terminating at Reading… and presumably the train was still full to standing, and not platformed at the time.
There were no reports of passengers heading to London suddenly finding themselves going back to Cornwall.. so evidently a good amount of communication was possible after the event at Swindon, through to Reading.

That would suggest the comms problem must have been fixed, in some manner, just East of Swindon, sometime after 7pm ?

 

[Tomnick]

But that doesnt fit with passengers tweets to the GWR site who indicate communications were made after the event, (1) informing of the issues with passenger alarms, (2) returning to Swindon and (3) terminating at Reading… and presumably the train was still full to standing, and not platformed at the time.
There were no reports of passengers heading to London suddenly finding themselves going back to Cornwall.. so evidently a good amount of communication was possible after the event at Swindon, through to Reading.

That would suggest the comms problem must have been fixed, in some manner, just East of Swindon, sometime after 7pm ?

I don't know. It would depend on the nature of the fault, if there was one, though.

 

[Mintona]

I was wondering if it was announced on board at any point that the train would be calling additionally at Chippenham and Swindon, before the decision to change that was taken, or if it was only announced at Bristol TM and Bath. It’s possible that the guard didn’t realise there were a lot of passengers on board from Bristol and Bath trying to go to Chippenham and Swindon, and thought they were stopping there just to ‘Pick Up’ more, so it would make sense to cancel those stops when there was physically no room left on board.

I’m only speculating.

 

[Harold Hill]

Some, actually, many railway staff should not be in customer-facing roles, they obviously dislike interacting with people. Too may passive-aggressive types that are deliberately unhelpful

 

[800001]

Some, actually, many railway staff should not be in customer-facing roles, they obviously dislike interacting with people. Too may passive-aggressive types that are deliberately unhelpful

You could say that about any job, any industry

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could say that about any job, any industry

It tends to be more of an issue in heavily unionised industries because people who "just have the wrong attitude" are hard to get rid of.

 

[Harold Hill]

'You could say that about any job, any industry'

You could, yes, but its particularly galling in an industry that functions on such huge subsidies from taxpayers

 

[Llanigraham]

Daily Mail quotes GWR spokesperson



Granted this is an extreme example and only being discussed because it found its way into media but there are daily occurrences of short notice alterations for whatever reason and really RDG should take a look at whether the industry manages the communications in these situations effectively. My view is despite the advances in mobile communications, public address and the vast sources of data readily available to staff and joe public now there's still plenty of room for improvement.

You can improve communications as much as you want but there will always be people who fail to hear the message or who choosae to ignore it.
I think everytime I have been on a Birmingham Euston Avanti train there has been atleast one person who has had another operators ticket, dispite there being broadcasts saying Avanti tickets only accepted and signs saying the same thing.

 

[BrianW]

Passengers force train to REVERSE after it failed to stop at Swindon

Passengers onboard a London-bound service repeatedly activated emergency alarms after the train failed to stop at Swindon unexpectedly forcing the driver to reverse and head back.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Great insight into the Daily Mail Online Great British Voting Public... rather more fierce and less 'understanding' than enthusiast Forumites.

GWR (Swindon!) turkeys voting for Christmas- quite a 'wheel stopping' 'turn around'... Putting passengers first? You could make it up

 

[Gloster]

To my mind a worrying indirect consequence of this incident, in particular the press reporting of it, is that forcing the the train to return to Swindon was seen as a ‘win’ (at least in the Telegraph, I don’t touch the Mail) for the passengers. Could we see situations in future where passengers, often with much less reason, use the alarms in order to get what they want (and to...with the rest of the railway)?

 

[Ken H]

To my mind a worrying indirect consequence of this incident, in particular the press reporting of it, is that forcing the the train to return to Swindon was seen as a ‘win’ (at least in the Telegraph, I don’t touch the Mail) for the passengers. Could we see situations in future where passengers, often with much less reason, use the alarms in order to get what they want (and to...with the rest of the railway)?

what. passengers actually want the railway to take them to their destinations. wow!

 

[Parallel]

what. passengers actually want the railway to take them to their destinations. wow!

But in this particular example, it was to the detriment of the other passengers on the train.

 

[Gloster]

what. passengers actually want the railway to take them to their destinations. wow!

To make it clear: a minority could cause a lot of delay for the rest, rather than accepting that the railway is trying to sort the delay in a way that minimises the overall delay for everybody. “If half-a-dozen of us who want X to happen cause enough disruption, X will happen and we will save half-an-hour. And to...with the several hundred others who may be delayed by twice that (and wouldn’t have been if we had let the railway get on with it).”

 

[Ken H]

But in this particular example, it was to the detriment of the other passengers on the train.

Oh, its the passengers fault the service fell apart. sorry, didn't realise.

 

[Parallel]

Oh, its the passengers fault the service fell apart. sorry, didn't realise.

GWR are to blame for causing confusion by adding and removing stops and not communicating it well enough. Passengers pulling the communication alarm repeatedly made it worse for everyone else on board (probably including themselves)

 

[Ken H]

GWR are to blame for causing confusion by adding and removing stops and arguably not communicating it well enough. Passengers pulling the communication alarm repeatedly made it worse for everyone else on board.

So how would a non railway person* know it would make stuff worse.

railway person = railwayman, or knowledgeable enthusiast.

 

[Djgr]

You can improve communications as much as you want but there will always be people who fail to hear the message or who choosae to ignore it.
I think everytime I have been on a Birmingham Euston Avanti train there has been atleast one person who has had another operators ticket, dispite there being broadcasts saying Avanti tickets only accepted and signs saying the same thing.

I don't think this was the issue here though

'You could say that about any job, any industry'

You could, yes, but its particularly galling in an industry that functions on such huge subsidies from taxpayers

And also I don't think this is necessarily true.

 

[Wolfie]

To my mind a worrying indirect consequence of this incident, in particular the press reporting of it, is that forcing the the train to return to Swindon was seen as a ‘win’ (at least in the Telegraph, I don’t touch the Mail) for the passengers. Could we see situations in future where passengers, often with much less reason, use the alarms in order to get what they want (and to...with the rest of the railway)?

Very possibly. If it happens the railway will have brought it on itself.

 

[Djgr]

Oh, its the passengers fault the service fell apart. sorry, didn't realise.

If it wasn't for those pesky passengers...