Passengers Missing Their Stops

[BestWestern]

Apologies for the impending semi-rant, but this is a subject which occasionally irritates me quite a bit and I'm curious as to how much it bothers my colleagues around the network. We can all understand of course that sometimes people miss their intended station, for a variety of reasons. I have no issue whatsoever with somebody who has fallen asleep, was distracted or simply didn't realise where they were, comes and sees me and asks how they can get back home again. But, what really gets my goat is when people immediately attempt to blame the train/Guard/doors etc despite it very obviously having been their own fault. Grrr

Yesterday evening I had a typical example; on approach to a busy interchange where a large number of pax were alighting we're held outside. A very clear, thorough announcement is made whilst we wait at the signal, we then pull in shortly afterwards and a large number of punters alight, bags and cases in tow. A handful of people board, the dispatcher gives me the batons and we're off. A good couple of minutes dwell time, certainly longer than timetabled. Five minutes later we arrive at the next stop, as I'm stood on the platform two slightly panicked women approach me, and spout the classic line: "You didn't let us off...." :roll::roll::roll:

Really, I didn't let you off, is that so?!! So the other 40-odd people managed to get off, and a few more managed to get on, but somehow in all of that you were completely unable to leave the train, how strange. I ask all the usual tedious questions, which door were you using and so on - as always, it's one which you know works because you've watched a load of people come through it at every stop (we're talking little Sprinters here) - and get the usual tedious reply "We pushed the buttons but they just wouldn't open..." Nope, that'll be because the train was actually leaving the station by the time you eventually got to them

I then have to make phone calls to advise the control bods that we have some hapless people heading back to the previous stop, where the unfortunate staff will have to advise them that they have missed their last connection, at which point they will doubtless protest that they couldn't get off the train and so it was all our fault and do their best to demand a bl**dy taxi etc etc....

It never ceases to amaze me how some people appear to have no sense of urgency at all when intending to alight from a train, and seem to think we will sit there for a good five minutes or so just in case they need an extra few minutes to faff about before eventually fumbling their way off :roll::roll::roll:

 

[CarterUSM]

Apologies for the impending semi-rant, but this is a subject which occasionally irritates me quite a bit and I'm curious as to how much it bothers my colleagues around the network. We can all understand of course that sometimes people miss their intended station, for a variety of reasons. I have no issue whatsoever with somebody who has fallen asleep, was distracted or simply didn't realise where they were, comes and sees me and asks how they can get back home again. But, what really gets my goat is when people immediately attempt to blame the train/Guard/doors etc despite it very obviously having been their own fault. Grrr

Yesterday evening I had a typical example; on approach to a busy interchange where a large number of pax were alighting we're held outside. A very clear, thorough announcement is made whilst we wait at the signal, we then pull in shortly afterwards and a large number of punters alight, bags and cases in tow. A handful of people board, the dispatcher gives me the batons and we're off. A good couple of minutes dwell time, certainly longer than timetabled. Five minutes later we arrive at the next stop, as I'm stood on the platform two slightly panicked women approach me, and spout the classic line: "You didn't let us off...." :roll::roll::roll:

Really, I didn't let you off, is that so?!! So the other 40-odd people managed to get off, and a few more managed to get on, but somehow in all of that you were completely unable to leave the train, how strange. I ask all the usual tedious questions, which door were you using and so on - as always, it's one which you know works because you've watched a load of people come through it at every stop (we're talking little Sprinters here) - and get the usual tedious reply "We pushed the buttons but they just wouldn't open..." Nope, that'll be because the train was actually leaving the station by the time you eventually got to them

I then have to make phone calls to advise the control bods that we have some hapless people heading back to the previous stop, where the unfortunate staff will have to advise them that they have missed their last connection, at which point they will doubtless protest that they couldn't get off the train and so it was all our fault and do their best to demand a bl**dy taxi etc etc....

It never ceases to amaze me how some people appear to have no sense of urgency at all when intending to alight from a train, and seem to think we will sit there for a good five minutes or so just in case they need an extra few minutes to faff about before eventually fumbling their way off :roll::roll::roll:

I fully agree, and can't really add anything to what you have said!

 

[EM2]

As someone who has been unable to fight their way to the doors on a NXEA 315, despite leaving their seat as soon as the doors closed at the previous station, it's not always a black-and-white situation.

 

[BestWestern]

As someone who has been unable to fight their way to the doors on a NXEA 315, despite leaving their seat as soon as the doors closed at the previous station, it's not always a black-and-white situation.

I accept that it's a different situation when a train is packed solid, that's fair enough and I always allow as much time as I reasonably can with rammed trains. My chagrin is aimed at those for whom there is no excuse!

 

[Wyvern]

A problem you are likely to find in the future is that many bus companies are telling their passengers to remain seated to the bus has stopped (Ariva Derby is an example)

If they think it's the same on their train the guard is likely to have given the right away by the time they get to the doors since, standing on the platform, he cant see them.

 

[michael769]

If they think it's the same on their train the guard is likely to have given the right away by the time they get to the doors since, standing on the platform, he cant see them.

In most trains there is more than enough time to get up from your seat, get to the door and off before the guard begins dispatch. Assuming that you actually make your move as soon as the train stops, rather that phaffing about putting, your coat on collecting your luggage having a wee chat and then dawdling up the aisle - that is.

 

[Wyvern]

On the buses I mentioned, the driver is supposed to wait while you get your bits and pieces together since you cant do it sitting down.

Not everyone is as young and fit as you are.

 

[tsr]

What I find appalling is that at some busy stations - London Victoria and East Croydon spring to mind on the Brighton Mainline, and I use these an awful lot - the dispatcher frequently starts blowing their whistle and they raise their batons a full minute or two before the doors close and the train departs in some instances, but in other instances the complete opposite happens, and the train doors close (and lock) well before they do either of these things.

I understand that the situation is a bit more complex than this, but to your average passenger, that won't be apparent.

Now, this massive variation provokes two reactions in passengers. The first reaction, and potentially the most dangerous, is that as soon as the doors open, everyone floods on and off the train, firstly not caring that there are people with baby buggies, people in wheelchairs, those with enormous luggage, and secondly, more worryingly, failing to notice until the last nanosecond that there is a gap and a step when boarding and alighting. Forget the rule about letting passengers off the train first: in the peak, someone blowing their whistle 5 seconds after the doors open is bound to cause a bit of panic on and outside a packed train.

The second reaction from more relaxed and perhaps "experienced" travellers is that they ignore the whistle, and the batons, which they now assume to be surplus to the requirements of the whole system. Thus there are still people wandering on and off when the dispatcher is virtually jumping up and down on the platform in annoyance.

One of these days the safety mechanism on a door is going to fail and someone will narrowly miss being executed, or somebody will get dragged between the train and the platform. If the batons are raised and the train is on a curved platform, the guard potentially might not see something or somebody trapped in the doors, and door mechanisms are not 100% perfect. Even with multiple dispatchers, they and the guard are usually in a bit of a huddle at one point on the platform, and often aren't paying much attention to anything in particular.

And I'm not even going to start ranting on about the "This train is ready to depart" messages on the information system that are turned on before the train even stops at the appointed marker on the platform.

/rant

 

[Matt Taylor]

Apologies for the impending semi-rant, but this is a subject which occasionally irritates me quite a bit and I'm curious as to how much it bothers my colleagues around the network. We can all understand of course that sometimes people miss their intended station, for a variety of reasons. I have no issue whatsoever with somebody who has fallen asleep, was distracted or simply didn't realise where they were, comes and sees me and asks how they can get back home again. But, what really gets my goat is when people immediately attempt to blame the train/Guard/doors etc despite it very obviously having been their own fault. Grrr

Yesterday evening I had a typical example; on approach to a busy interchange where a large number of pax were alighting we're held outside. A very clear, thorough announcement is made whilst we wait at the signal, we then pull in shortly afterwards and a large number of punters alight, bags and cases in tow. A handful of people board, the dispatcher gives me the batons and we're off. A good couple of minutes dwell time, certainly longer than timetabled. Five minutes later we arrive at the next stop, as I'm stood on the platform two slightly panicked women approach me, and spout the classic line: "You didn't let us off...." :roll::roll::roll:

Really, I didn't let you off, is that so?!! So the other 40-odd people managed to get off, and a few more managed to get on, but somehow in all of that you were completely unable to leave the train, how strange. I ask all the usual tedious questions, which door were you using and so on - as always, it's one which you know works because you've watched a load of people come through it at every stop (we're talking little Sprinters here) - and get the usual tedious reply "We pushed the buttons but they just wouldn't open..." Nope, that'll be because the train was actually leaving the station by the time you eventually got to them

I then have to make phone calls to advise the control bods that we have some hapless people heading back to the previous stop, where the unfortunate staff will have to advise them that they have missed their last connection, at which point they will doubtless protest that they couldn't get off the train and so it was all our fault and do their best to demand a bl**dy taxi etc etc....

It never ceases to amaze me how some people appear to have no sense of urgency at all when intending to alight from a train, and seem to think we will sit there for a good five minutes or so just in case they need an extra few minutes to faff about before eventually fumbling their way off :roll::roll::roll:

Completely agree, it happens almost every night on late turns. Last night I had several 'sleepers' over carried from Staines to Windsor with no train back until 6am this morning, and I bet it will happen tonight when I finish at 01:45-but at least in London we have night buses!

 

[PR1Berske]

I am a passenger (sorry, pax ) and am just as frustrated it seems as rail crew!

I would rather be ready to leave as the train is pulling into a station than in a panic when the doors open and I'm still sat down checking my phone.

I understand that older and elderly passengers prefer waiting until the train has stopped at the station before getting up and ready. I assume that guards or dispatchers or whoever would rather wait for older people to get off than the couple of loud mouthed women whose shopping chatter has been more important than checking where the train was.

That said, the industry should ensure that passengers who are genuinely unsure where they are, or who were unable to alight for whatever genuine reason, are not treated as being in the wrong. We're not all quite as OCD as I am for checking routes, stops, and all the rest of it.

 

[175001]

I always get "The door didn't open" statement from people who miss they're stops. The same door HAS opened at all other stops, then you ask them if they had pressed the button, the answer is "What button?"

Also, I shake my head, when I see people getting up from they're seats a good few seconds once the train has stopped, and there is nobody in the saloon to restrict them, and then you see them reaching for luggage, coats etc, as the hustle alarm goes, and then once they jump out, look at me with a murderous stare!!

 

[Holly]

Apologies for the impending semi-rant, but ... and spout the classic line: "You didn't let us off...."
Really, I didn't let you off, is that so?!! So the other 40-odd people managed to ...

I suspect people are blaming the railway for fear of what will happen if they don't. Stories like "woman with children charged hundreds of pounds for joining the wrong train between the same stations. On an advance purchase at a fraction of the price."

In the old days ("Oh Mr Porter what shall I do?! I wanted to go to Birmingham and they sent me off to Crewe!") people expected courtesy and helpfulness from the plentiful staff. The heydays of BR and service are long gone.

Nowadays there are penalty fares and rules of bewildering complexity that only a trainspotter could hope to comprehend.

My own sister drives journeys and pays outrageous sums for parking that would be cheaper and better for her by rail. For fear of making an honest mistake in ticketing and being treated as a criminal.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I agree with most of your comments.
But I have been in a situation where I had a problem alighting an hst.
There were around 25 people in front, of which approx 20 alighted, Others standing/sitting with cases as the train was packed. As I struggled to the door, with my baggage, people started pilling on as some were still leaving.. I started to get pushed back. Panic! - I had to literally force my way through using all my weight, pushing people back out onto the platform!!
Don't think I was very popular, but really it was their own fault!
An elderly person wouldn't have got out.

 

[moonrakerz]

The OP brings to mind an incident I saw earlier this year at Salisbury.

I had gone there to photograph a steam hauled excursion. The train arrived with about a 25 min stop scheduled to take on water. Many passengers got off to look at the loco (Oliver Cromwell IIRC !).
Eventually the stewards off the train start shouting "everyone back on board please" and start shepherding their flock in the right direction. A couple of stewards then walk up the platform just making sure that those left on the platform didn't arrive on the train.
The driver gives several long blasts on the whistle, several minutes before he gets the formal departure signal.
I watch the train leave, wander slowly back up the very long Platform 4 towards the exit, visiting the Gents on the way.

At the barriers were a couple of very animated "passengers" trying to find out what time the next train Bristol was so that they could re-board the special !!:roll::roll:

 

[Ze Random One]

It seems to be a particular problem in the London area, as the most commonly used form of train for Londoners does not require you to do anything to open the door. Also, when you are on a bus, the driver opens the doors (including the rear doors where applicable) on buses in the UK.
However, it is also true that some rolling stock specifiers and manufacturers have not helped. The location of some door open buttons are quite a distance from the doors themselves, which is not intuitive for those who don't really understand how systems work - your car door has the handle on the door, as does your house door, as does your office door, usually -- therefore placing the door buttons on, or right next to the door would be preferable.
If you've been on a Pacer, you'll know quite how "non-obvious" the door control buttons can be!
Perhaps operators could help by placing a sticker prominently on the door
" <-- Push button to open door ".
Admittedly there will always be some people who are unable or unwilling to take some time to comprehend the world around them and adjust their behaviours accordingly, and perhaps we just need to work out a way of dealing with the aftermath of that.

 

[The175]

Once in a blue moon I'll have a passenger who, as I show them which button they should have pressed, will have the good grace to admit they were opening the toilet or opening the door on the other side etc. But as I say, it is very rare. People should take responsibility for their own actions. End of.

It's the same as the classic "You shut the doors before i could get off! I only got on to put my friends luggage on the train- I didn't want to travel!"

And just how are we supposed to know that??!!

Funny how it is almost always followed by complaints about their car being clamped or towed away because they left it outside the station on double yellows or something equally stupid- I once had a bloke leave his KEYS in the ignition!

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I suspect people are blaming the railway for fear of what will happen if they don't. Stories like "woman with children charged hundreds of pounds for joining the wrong train between the same stations. On an advance purchase at a fraction of the price."

In the old days ("Oh Mr Porter what shall I do?! I wanted to go to Birmingham and they sent me off to Crewe!") people expected courtesy and helpfulness from the plentiful staff. The heydays of BR and service are long gone.

Nowadays there are penalty fares and rules of bewildering complexity that only a trainspotter could hope to comprehend.

My own sister drives journeys and pays outrageous sums for parking that would be cheaper and better for her by rail. For fear of making an honest mistake in ticketing and being treated as a criminal.

In the BR days my brother landed up in Paignton instead of Penzance.
The guard simply told them how to get back to Newton Abbott etc.
After a delay at Plymouth, and a bit of rescheduling by BR the train we took did not stop at Par, but went non stop to Newquay!! (3 trains behind it) No big deal back then. Just got home over 2 hours late! (Think my mum enjoyed the scenic trip to Newquay)

 

[WelshBluebird]

and get the usual tedious reply "We pushed the buttons but they just wouldn't open..." Nope, that'll be because the train was actually leaving the station by the time you eventually got to them

You do realise that sometimes people will be telling the truth?

I have seen this happen on a 158 before. There were a few people with buggies and bicycles who were trying to get off at Oldfield Park. They pressed the open button exactly when they should have, and tried again when it did not open. The doors still did not open. By the time they had moved over to the other door with their stuff, the train was then leaving. Luckily Bath Spa isn't that far away from oldfield park.

 

[40fan]

In September I made a journey on London Midland train from Milton Keynes to Stoke-on-Trent. As the train approached Stafford and the stop was announced I heard someone furthur along the coach asking how long it took to get to Nuneaton.

Two ladies had travelled from Euston, managed to go five stops past their destination and still not noticed.

 

[tsr]

In September I made a journey on London Midland train from Milton Keynes to Stoke-on-Trent. As the train approached Stafford and the stop was announced I heard someone furthur along the coach asking how long it took to get to Nuneaton.

Two ladies had travelled from Euston, managed to go five stops past their destination and still not noticed.

It's sometimes even worse when people end up looking out of the window.

I recently heard two people describe Purley Tesco as a "lovely rural area". I know they were describing that particular landmark because they were both looking out of the window and one of them pointed to it.

 

[Wyvern]

I understand that older and elderly passengers prefer waiting until the train has stopped at the station before getting up and ready.

The point I'm trying to make is that people are expected to remain in their seats until buses stop and, since, believe it or not, most people are unfamiliar with train travel, an increasing problem may be that they will forget they have to be by the door when the train stops.

 

[Waddon]

At Horley on Friday, I saw something that made me laugh. Train pulls in, about half a dozen assorted passengers go to the vestibule ready to disembark, but they were all distracted, either chatting, texting, getting their bags together, not paying attention. Train stops, doors released, stands for 30 seconds, doors secured and then it pulls off, one of the passengers suddenly snaps back into consciousness and says 'oh, push the button!' but of course by then it's too late, they are on their way to Gatwick... (ps before you say it, I was at the other end of the carriage, so I'm not exactly going to bellow "push the button" at the top of my voice). At least its not far to go back...

 

[AlterEgo]

The overwhelming majority of people on any one train will have taken a train before...

 

[Mojo]

I have seen this happen on a 158 before. There were a few people with buggies and bicycles who were trying to get off at Oldfield Park. They pressed the open button exactly when they should have, and tried again when it did not open. The doors still did not open. By the time they had moved over to the other door with their stuff, the train was then leaving. Luckily Bath Spa isn't that far away from oldfield park.

This happened on the Severn Beach Line once too; a pair of doors did not open at Redland station.

 

[CosherB]

This happened on the Severn Beach Line once too; a pair of doors did not open at Redland station.

Happened to a friend of mine on a Pendelino, too, at Warrington. I know it was a real door fault as he was in 1st class so there was a steward by the door and he couldn't open it either. They had to move to the next door, but by then the doors were locked again, so he had to get off at Preston.

Why couldn't the steward have contacted the TM asking him not to give the 'right away' until the passengers at that door had moved to a working door and got off the train?

 

[Greenback]

Despite announcements and display screens on the 175's in West Wales, some travellers still seem to have no idea where they areOnly the other day a chap asked me if where we are at Llanelli when I was standin gin lien waiting to get off at...Llanelli.

It's a good job the train was busy, as by the time he had got up, put his coat, gloves and hat on, then picked up his bags, the train may well have been in Burry Port!

 

[O L Leigh]

I think there are two issues here. There are legitimate and understandable reasons why a passenger might miss their stop, and I don't think there is any argument about those.

What irks staff is when someone comes up and accuses you of failing to do something simply to hide their embarrassment at missing their stop due to inattention. I've had more than a few people come and accuse me of not stopping at a certain station or failing to release the doors, and it does annoy me when they do it.

O L Leigh

 

[Aictos]

What about those who jump on a train then moan it didn't stop at their station ie jump on a York to Kings Cross service which after Grantham has Stevenage as the first stop then state it didn't stop at Peterborough?

 

[O L Leigh]

Nope. No sympathy there either.

O L Leigh

 

[Eagle]

This happened on the Severn Beach Line once too; a pair of doors did not open at Redland station.

I've been overcarried from Coventry to Leamington as a result of a non-opening door on a 221. The guard was in the vestibule as this happened and saw the whole thing.

At the time I actually lived in Leamington, and the guard seemed happy to just let me exit Leamington station when we got there :P