Passengers moaning on social media

[Ianigsy]

A few weeks ago I had a fairly entertaining interaction with Northern's Twitter feed- I was returning from Bradford to Menston and arrived at Forster Square about 10-15 minutes ahead of time to find the Ilkley train cancelled "due to earlier congestion". Having allowed the Skipton and Leeds trains to go, I had a bit of a fiddle with my phone to kill time...to find that the Ilkley train had been started from Shipley and I could have taken one of the earlier trains and caught it at Shipley if I'd known this.

There then followed about half an hour of the person singularly failing to get my point and not understanding the difference between a train being cancelled outright and being started partway through its booked journey and "cancelled" at its planned point of origin. As the discussion kept me occupied for the 20 minutes or so that I still had to wait and a further 20 minutes of the train journey, I was quite amused by it all in the end, although given that I'd been on a 10 mile walk at Hebden Bridge earlier in the afternoon, I could have done without it!

 

[Antman]

With the ongoing weather related problems in the south east this morning twitter really is invaluable!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was possible to telephone someone who had direct connection to operations and get information or report a problem for immediate solution (e.g. inaccurate information on a departure board at an unstaffed station, a load of confused passengers somewhere etc) there would be no need for Twitter. As it is, it is, where on the ground staff are not available or are the cause, the only way of getting a problem solved there and then rather than just getting a retrospective apology.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[plastictaffy]

I personally don't think it matters HOW you try to converse with and tell the passengers what's going on - they still rarely listen.

 

[DelayRepay]

I was on a train that was delayed this morning. The driver made a few announcements saying we were at a red signal but he didn't know what the problem was or how long we were likely to be. We were in a platform so knowing the likely length of delay is useful because there are other options e.g. continue the journey by bus.

Even though the driver did not know, the twitter people were broadcasting that it was a broken down train, delays upto 30 minutes expected and train tickets being accepted on the bus/tube.

It's a shame that we as passengers can only find this out from our phones, and it doesn't reflect well on the railway.

 

[amateur]

There's the twitter moaners. There's also the regular twitter users who just tweet all the tocs in the country saying "hello" "hi" "who's on tweet desk today" "who's on the late shift today" and repeating the same "conversation" everyday.

One toc tweeted back "shouldn't you be in bed by now" can't even take a hint! I imagine the same people are on this forum too!

 

[Antman]

I personally don't think it matters HOW you try to converse with and tell the passengers what's going on - they still rarely listen.

HOW do you know whether they listen or not?

 

[chris11256]

As a passenger I mainly use Twitter for fault reporting. Things like heating is going full blast when it's 25 degrees outside. I even had carriage where both the heating & air con was on at the same time.

It's also useful for giving positive feedback about staff. It's quick & easy and I can do it while I still remember the details.

I like being friendly via twitter(not the daily 'hello who's this' twitter people) as it makes it seem a bit more human/personalised. Opposed to the standard cut/paste replies you always get from customer services.

 

[PHILIPE]

As a passenger I mainly use Twitter for fault reporting. Things like heating is going full blast when it's 25 degrees outside. It's also useful for giving positive feedback about staff. It's quick & easy and I can do it while I still remember the details.

I like being friendly via twitter(not the daily hello, who's this twitter people) as it makes it seem a bit more human/personalised. Opposed to the standard cut/paste replies you always get from customer services.

Re matters like heating ATW ask :- "Have you spoken to the conductor, he/she is best placed".

 

[chris11256]

Re matters like heating ATW ask :- "Have you spoken to the conductor, he/she is best placed".

I commute with c2c so twitter team pass air con/heating issues onto the depot. Occasionally I've mentioned things to staff at Fenchurch street, as there's a member of staff there who can adjust air con/heating.

 

[Clip]

HOW do you know whether they listen or not?

If they work in the industry then they would know through experience and I, for one, would agree with plastictaffy as very few people do, even if you say it to their face they will go off and ask someone else to try and get an answer they like.

 

[theironroad]

I was on a train that was delayed this morning. The driver made a few announcements saying we were at a red signal but he didn't know what the problem was or how long we were likely to be. We were in a platform so knowing the likely length of delay is useful because there are other options e.g. continue the journey by bus.

Even though the driver did not know, the twitter people were broadcasting that it was a broken down train, delays upto 30 minutes expected and train tickets being accepted on the bus/tube.

It's a shame that we as passengers can only find this out from our phones, and it doesn't reflect well on the railway.

It's a shame that TOC managers feel it is more important to tell people on Twitter what they think is going on than actually bothering to communicate with their front line staff on the train. Toc control centres tend to keep staff on the train out of any information loop, be it guards (if you're lucky to have one) or drivers, which is why many passengers know what is happening before on board staff.

The railways will soon be run by computers and passengers via twitter, because there is a plan to de-staff the railways at an astonishing rate.

 

[Clip]

It's a shame that TOC managers feel it is more important to tell people on Twitter what they think is going on than actually bothering to communicate with their front line staff on the train. Toc control centres tend to keep staff on the train out of any information loop, be it guards (if you're lucky to have one) or drivers, which is why many passengers know what is happening before on board staff.

People who man the twitter/customer service desks will generally get the information quicker than anyone else and are able to update such mediums than getting the info to a driver so there is a lag in that respect yes.

 

[45107]

It's a shame that TOC managers feel it is more important to tell people on Twitter what they think is going on than actually bothering to communicate with their front line staff on the train. Toc control centres tend to keep staff on the train out of any information loop, be it guards (if you're lucky to have one) or drivers, which is why many passengers know what is happening before on board staff.

The railways will soon be run by computers and passengers via twitter, because there is a plan to de-staff the railways at an astonishing rate.

Completely disagree. Messages from Control are sent to stations and on train staff. To my knowledge, the main form of communication is via e-mail and this requires the guard to read them when possibly dealing with something else. Of course phone could be used but when a dozen trains are affected, that is a lot of repeated calls (and TOC controls have no direct means of contacting drivers - the signaller does but they have other priorities when it goes pear shaped) TOC control make a judgement on info from Network Rail and experience of similar incidents.
Twitter messages are sent out, but the majority of recipients are looking for a response and are asking for delay reasons as soon as a train starts slowing down in an unusual area.
Now whether or not guards are allowed access to Twitter on company phones is another matter

 

[DelayRepay]

Completely disagree. Messages from Control are sent to stations and on train staff. To my knowledge, the main form of communication is via e-mail and this requires the guard to read them when possibly dealing with something else. Of course phone could be used but when a dozen trains are affected, that is a lot of repeated calls (and TOC controls have no direct means of contacting drivers - the signaller does but they have other priorities when it goes pear shaped) TOC control make a judgement on info from Network Rail and experience of similar incidents.
Twitter messages are sent out, but the majority of recipients are looking for a response and are asking for delay reasons as soon as a train starts slowing down in an unusual area.
Now whether or not guards are allowed access to Twitter on company phones is another matter

The problem with the scenario I described is, the TOC has chosen to run their service without a guard, instead relying on the driver to provide passenger information. The information was clearly available, because it was on twitter. The driver was clearly willing and able to make announcements, as he did so. The problem is the driver did not have the information so his announcements were not very helpful to the passengers.

When I am sat on a train that's going nowhere, at a platform with the doors unlocked, I don't think it is unreasonable to want to know what is going on so I can decide whether to abandon the train and use a bus. I was after all on my way to work, as were most of the other people on the train.

We already have a massive thread about DOO so I won't go there except to say if a TOC chooses to operate its trains in this way, it needs to make sure the driver is provided with accurate and up to date information (or this is communicated to passengers via another method e.g. remote announcements).

If their operating model relies on a member of staff (driver) providing information which (s)he does not have access to, then that operating model is not fit for purpose and it is little wonder that passengers get annoyed!

 

[Frontera2]

Twitter is just another means for companies to show how little they know about their own services. I read the GTR ones for entertainment as they spout utter crap at times.

Over on Southeastern's feed, they could halve their twitter load just by heating/cooling their trains appropriately - why, a decade into the 21st century, they can't do this is brain numbing. The remaining tweets appear to be about train & signalling faults; both of which must be solvable by preventative maintenence?

To be fair to SE, most of the complaints about hearing are for Networkers which don't have air conditioning which doesn't help.

Also, one persons too hot is another ones too cold

 

[ungreat]

Drivers are not allowed to access any mobile phone communications whilst in charge of a train so rarely know,unless contacted by the signaller,why there's a delay
I make announcements saying this.

 

[Antman]

If they work in the industry then they would know through experience and I, for one, would agree with plastictaffy as very few people do, even if you say it to their face they will go off and ask someone else to try and get an answer they like.

Quite honestly I think it's just another sweeping unsubstantiated statement. Passengers are (shock horror!) generally quite understanding if they know the full story. Yesterdays weather problems in the south east for example, I didn't hear anybody blaming Southeastern for a tree on the line at Shortlands. A train cancelled because a driver or guard is unavailable is obviously a different story.

 

[LowLevel]

This is one of the downsides of GSMR. Instead of the old rule 55 where the signaller would tell the driver the circumstances on the phone and confirm the train is protected, the new system of sending a GSMR message generally gives you a 4 letter response - 'Wait'.

Consequently there has been a reversal in roles and by virtue of real time trains, Tyrell messages and emails and the old bugging phonecall to control as a guard I usually tell my driver about problems long before we get to them or before Network Rail manage to tell them.

 

[jon0844]

Re matters like heating ATW ask :- "Have you spoken to the conductor, he/she is best placed".

I Tweeted GTR on a train at King's Cross that wasn't leaving for over 10 minutes, giving platform, head code and carriage number for the accessible toilet that was in a, erm, rather disgusting state with 'liquid' leaking out.

I don't know if they just felt motivated by the 'challenge' but they managed to get a cleaning team out to mop up a little, and lock the toilet out of use.

More recently I reported a vandalised bus stop to the council, complete with photos of the damage to help their infrastructure team, and got a response very quickly.

Twitter works very well. You can complain but must remember to do it in a polite way. I am disheartened when I see how some people take things out on staff (online or not) and have never felt the need to get angry or start swearing.

I can occasionally be a bit too sarcastic for my own good, but if I do that it's not at the expense of the person I'm talking to - but the company or their management.

You want the person you're talking with to want to help you. That means getting them on your side. Do that and you can usually get things resolved quite easily.

 

[Clip]

Quite honestly I think it's just another sweeping unsubstantiated statement. Passengers are (shock horror!) generally quite understanding if they know the full story. Yesterdays weather problems in the south east for example, I didn't hear anybody blaming Southeastern for a tree on the line at Shortlands. A train cancelled because a driver or guard is unavailable is obviously a different story.

You can think all you want. After nearly 20 years being on the frontline of Customer services on the railway I can tell you for absolute certainty that lots and lots and lots of passengers dont listen to what you tell them. Even more so when they dont read your name badge and still ask for a manager.

Did you spend all your time listening to all passengers at all stations then about yesterdays tree issue or are you just basing yoru sweeping generalisation on what you saw on twitter?

 

[Sprinter153]

The latest trend in my depot now is for Guards to tell people to go and moan on Twitter instead of filling in a defect report / locking a toilet out / assisting passengers with ticket restrictions, which is of course is turkeys voting for Christmas in terms of reducing our value to passengers.

Having said that some of the Twitter team round here will tell passengers to seek out the TM if it's too warm or too cold. On some of the modern (and of course Mark 3) stock I work that's fine as I can usually do something. On 1990s DMUs where neither myself or my driver have any control over the saloon heating - it just makes the TM look stupid.

 

[TheManBehind]

It's a shame that TOC managers feel it is more important to tell people on Twitter what they think is going on than actually bothering to communicate with their front line staff on the train. Toc control centres tend to keep staff on the train out of any information loop, be it guards (if you're lucky to have one) or drivers, which is why many passengers know what is happening before on board staff.

The railways will soon be run by computers and passengers via twitter, because there is a plan to de-staff the railways at an astonishing rate.

As someone that does both for my employer, there's a big difference in putting together a 2000-character line problem message in Tyrell for guards and customers and my colleague behind me putting together a 140-character message for twitter - one takes a lot longer and requires a lot more thought! Aim is for initial line problem message to be issued within 10 minutes, and twitter takes a fraction of that time.

Worth remembering that everything twitter does is quotable and everyone expects a compromise on quality because :twitter: but a line problem needs to be written like a press release - you can and do get quoted in full by local press, and the line problem go out to traffic agencies so they need to be understandable by laymen.

Last thing intended is to keep crews out of the loop, and I take pride in making sure that crews on my TOC are kept regularly informed during disruption - y'all'd still be on pagers if not 2B46 LT SOU WT CRW EXP 20M.

 

[Antman]

You can think all you want. After nearly 20 years being on the frontline of Customer services on the railway I can tell you for absolute certainty that lots and lots and lots of passengers dont listen to what you tell them. Even more so when they dont read your name badge and still ask for a manager.

Did you spend all your time listening to all passengers at all stations then about yesterdays tree issue or are you just basing yoru sweeping generalisation on what you saw on twitter?

The title of the thread should be changed to 'members of this forum moaning about passengers moaning on social media':roll:

 

[theageofthetra]

Regarding the lack of information available to drivers, I am struggling to remember the last time I heard a GSMR general broadcast during times of serious disruption. I don't think I have received one since before Christmas. Anyone else noticed this and can anyone in the boxes advise why they aren't being used as much?- not having a go, just curious.

 

[Clip]

The title of the thread should be changed to 'members of this forum moaning about passengers moaning on social media':roll:

Well it makes a change of threads moaning about the railway :roll:

 

[carriageline]

Regarding the lack of information available to drivers, I am struggling to remember the last time I heard a GSMR general broadcast during times of serious disruption. I don't think I have received one since before Christmas. Anyone else noticed this and can anyone in the boxes advise why they aren't being used as much?- not having a go, just curious.

Depends on the situation really, and the signaller involved. I've had situations where all trains are at a stand, but it's normally easier to tell the platform staff who then tell the drivers why they are being held, any other trains I tend to ring individually and tell them what I know.

Also depends on the situation, I recently had a simple track circuit failure, and before I knew it I had 5 trains at a stand due to a TPWS activation and brakes hard on, and a passcom activation and then being snowed under with phonecalls.

If my panels had a larger area of control, then I would certainly use the general broadcast. I use the berth triggered broadcasts for general messages (IE slow side platforms out of us, signalling problems at X123 signal contact when at a stand)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HH]

The title of the thread should be changed to 'members of this forum moaning about passengers moaning on social media':roll:

I think it should be called Antman moaning about forum members moaning about passengers moaning.

 

[45107]

The problem with the scenario I described is, the TOC has chosen to run their service without a guard, instead relying on the driver to provide passenger information. The information was clearly available, because it was on twitter. The driver was clearly willing and able to make announcements, as he did so. The problem is the driver did not have the information so his announcements were not very helpful to the passengers.

When I am sat on a train that's going nowhere, at a platform with the doors unlocked, I don't think it is unreasonable to want to know what is going on so I can decide whether to abandon the train and use a bus. I was after all on my way to work, as were most of the other people on the train.

We already have a massive thread about DOO so I won't go there except to say if a TOC chooses to operate its trains in this way, it needs to make sure the driver is provided with accurate and up to date information (or this is communicated to passengers via another method e.g. remote announcements).

If their operating model relies on a member of staff (driver) providing information which (s)he does not have access to, then that operating model is not fit for purpose and it is little wonder that passengers get annoyed!

I have no operational knowledge of DOO(P) operation so cannot offer a comment about the rights/wrongs of information flow during disruption. I agree that there are a number of areas that need improving.

As someone that does both for my employer, there's a big difference in putting together a 2000-character line problem message in Tyrell for guards and customers and my colleague behind me putting together a 140-character message for twitter - one takes a lot longer and requires a lot more thought! Aim is for initial line problem message to be issued within 10 minutes, and twitter takes a fraction of that time.

Worth remembering that everything twitter does is quotable and everyone expects a compromise on quality because :twitter: but a line problem needs to be written like a press release - you can and do get quoted in full by local press, and the line problem go out to traffic agencies so they need to be understandable by laymen.

Last thing intended is to keep crews out of the loop, and I take pride in making sure that crews on my TOC are kept regularly informed during disruption - y'all'd still be on pagers if not 2B46 LT SOU WT CRW EXP 20M.

That sums up with a far better explanation, the point I was trying to make in post #104 of this thread. (My role is more 'operational' than 'information').

The 2B46 example reminds me of log entries I made and pager messages I sent out in the early '90s (and everyone at the time understood them).

 

[TheManBehind]

That sums up with a far better explanation, the point I was trying to make in post #104 of this thread. (My role is more 'operational' than 'information').

The 2B46 example reminds me of log entries I made and pager messages I sent out in the early '90s (and everyone at the time understood them).

I still write my notes like that little bit of railway shorthand! They weren't much cop for new guards trying to convert to an announcement though - importance for my team these days is trying to make the transition between written and spoken as small as possible, particularly for new entrants who get about a half-day of announcement training.