Penalty Fare on DLR, had capped out

[winged_2001]

Hi there,

I'd be grateful for some advice and feedback re: appealing the penalty fare set against me.

I traveled on the DLR from Lewisham to Elverson Road recently and on leaving the train was accosted by a ticket officer. He checked my PAYG Oyster and confirmed it had not verified at Lewisham prior to entering the train.

I told the officer I had tapped the card on the machine and thought it had beeped, there were many people filtering through and I was rushing for the train which was about to depart.

Upon checking my card it was clear I'd already capped out on the maximum daily charge. He considered this and then said it didn't matter because I hadn't tapped in.

There was no financial gain of me not tapping in (indeed I thought I had) and I was only travelling one stop (which is about 100 metres). I appreciate technically I'm still in breach, but do officers not have any discretion or take capped fare into account, like they would a travelcard?

I want to appeal on the basis I'd already capped out, so to be fined £40 (or £80) when TFL/Serco aren't out of pocket from my journey is unreasonable and overly officious regarding process.

I'd be interested to hear from forum experts on if you think I have a legit claim.

Thanks muchly,
James

 

[najaB]

The PF was legitimately issued - it follows the rules - but I believe it was unfair. I think that you might get a better result if instead of (or in parallel to) appealing the PF you write to their customer services side to say how disappointed you are to have been hit with a PF when no loss had occurred.

 

[MikeWh]

Had you travelled on National Rail to Lewisham?
Did you touch out there?
Did the RPI get off the DLR with you?
Did you attempt to leave without touching out at Elverson Road?

Your honest answers to these questions will help determine my further advice.

However, the rules do clearly state that you must continue to touch in and out even after you have capped. This is mainly in case a later journey takes you into a higher capping zone. It also means that the penalty fare was almost certainly correctly issued.

 

[winged_2001]

Had you travelled on National Rail to Lewisham?
Did you touch out there?
Did the RPI get off the DLR with you?
Did you attempt to leave without touching out at Elverson Road?

Yes, yes, no, no.

 

[island]

The penalty fare was correctly issued, and you should pay it before it goes up.

 

[MikeWh]

Yes, yes, no, no.

OK, the only thing you had done wrong then was not touching back in at Lewisham DLR. Sadly, ...

The penalty fare was correctly issued, and you should pay it before it goes up.

If you don't mind using a stamp and a little time then once you've paid it you could write to customer relations and express your dismay at the size of the penalty imposed where no loss was incurred by the railway. It's unlikely to yield anything but if you don't try then it definitely won't.

The most important thing is to learn the lesson.

 

[londonbridge]

Whether you have already reached the cap or not is irrelevant, if you don't validate your card by touching in then you don't have a valid ticket or travel authority. If you take three bus journeys you still have to tap in on any subsequent journey, you can't just board another bus without tapping in.

As suggested you can appeal on the basis that no loss was incurred but I also doubt you'd get anywhere.

 

[winged_2001]

Thanks for all your responses. Essentially what you're all saying is you didn't tap in, so you should have a penalty fare. I suspected this would be the response.

It's frustrating that systems exist that are so inflexible and unwilling to exercise discretion or consider mitigating circumstances...especially when the fine is so disproportionate and the offended party are not at a loss.

It wouldn't me surprised if this type of activity actually causes more people to travel without tapping in knowingly, as they want to "stick it to the man".

 

[Antman]

Whether you have already reached the cap or not is irrelevant, if you don't validate your card by touching in then you don't have a valid ticket or travel authority. If you take three bus journeys you still have to tap in on any subsequent journey, you can't just board another bus without tapping in.

As suggested you can appeal on the basis that no loss was incurred but I also doubt you'd get anywhere.

Strictly speaking he was in the wrong but clearly gained nothing out of it so you would have thought common sense would have applied as it did when I saw the same thing on Tramlink. The passenger didn't bother touching in as he'd already reached the cap, the revenue guy just advised him that he should have done but took no further action.

Obviously it's slightly different on a bus where the driver has to know that the oyster is valid for travel.

 

[bb21]

It's frustrating that systems exist that are so inflexible and unwilling to exercise discretion or consider mitigating circumstances...especially when the fine is so disproportionate and the offended party are not at a loss.

You don't know that yet. How do you know they are unwilling to exercise discretion?

Pay the Penalty Fare, as obviously it is correctly issued as others said, albeit harshly given the circumstances, and then speak to Customer Service. No, they probably won't budge but not giving it a go means you will definitely not see discretion exercised.

If not, then chalk it down to experience.

 

[Clip]

As an aside to this and a warning to all about touching in on the DLR there is going to be a heavy increase in tickets checks from this year as part of their franchise agreement(25% of all journeys to be checked and they have 100 million of them last year) so even if you have capped out please remember to touch in.

 

[Barn]

I want to appeal on the basis I'd already capped out, so to be fined £40 (or £80) when TFL/Serco aren't out of pocket from my journey is unreasonable and overly officious regarding process.

Although clearly a capped card means that the customer won't be charged more, I wonder if further taps in and out still might affect the allocation of the capped payments between modes of transport and potentially operators. If that's the case then you can see why a capped card should still be touched in and out. If not, it does indeed seem a bit harsh.