People boarding trains displayed on departure screens as not in service

[JordyWM]

The amount of people rushing to get on a train Saturday night in New Street which was out of service was amazing. Even people who read it was out of service still tried to get on.

 

[yorkie]

Not strictly on topic, but the amount of people rushing to get on a train Saturday night in New Street which was out of service was amazing. Even people who read it was out of service still tried to get on.

The screens at platform 8 last night said the next train was not in service, as the 2049 to Nottingham rolled in. People ignored the screens and got on anyway. By the time I got on and looked out of the window I saw the screen had been corrected.

I think people will be more likely to accept what is written on screens as true if the screens are consistently accurate.

 

[Bromley boy]

It always amazes me how people will try and get onto *any* train that arrives in a platform and stops, even if clearly displayed as being not in service.

I can’t really see how they would successfully be able to board as an ECS train wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) release doors in a platform.

 

[nickrh14]

My Southern train home on Friday night said "Not in service - there should not be any passengers on board this train - please leave immediately as the doors are about to close" all the way home. It was of course 1C36, completely in service and running normally. The driver said he couldn't change the PIS and the OBS clearly didn't look at the screens at any point although he did at least make normal announcements.
Of course the CIS screens on the plaform did say it was in service

 

[JordyWM]

The screens at platform 8 last night said the next train was not in service, as the 2049 to Nottingham rolled in. People ignored the screens and got on anyway. By the time I got on and looked out of the window I saw the screen had been corrected.

I think people will be more likely to accept what is written on screens as true if the screens are consistently accurate.

Yeah, this one was on Platform 3 which also changed to Platform 2 last minute so everyone rushed to move a few meters to other platform.

There was a London Midland worker standing there ( must of been off duty ). The facial expressions said it all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The amount of people rushing to get on a train Saturday night in New Street which was out of service was amazing. Even people who read it was out of service still tried to get on.

The amount of time the PIS displays incorrect information (or the on-train displays, which at Euston tend not to be set up until a couple of minutes before departure) it has little credibility so this is not surprising. A manual announcement can help, though, if people are listening (if! ) because people will generally believe the content of one of those.

 

[northwichcat]

For TPE at Lime Street they can show "Not in passenger service" and then change to "Newcastle" or "Scarborough" a few minutes later. Presumably to give a few minutes for the train being cleaned. However, many passengers ignore that and on some services those who take notice of the CIS don't get a seat!

 

[Bletchleyite]

For TPE at Lime Street they can show "Not in passenger service" and then change to "Newcastle" or "Scarborough" a few minutes later. Presumably to give a few minutes for the train being cleaned. However, many passengers ignore that and on some services those who take notice of the CIS don't get a seat!

No, it's not for that reason, if they wanted to keep passengers off for that reason they could (and should) lock the doors. It's simply because the Desiro PIS (350s are the same) reset to whatever is configured for "not in service" on arrival at the terminus automatically.

At Euston, generally, near enough everyone has boarded before the driver/guard (not sure who does it on 350s) has got round to putting the destination up.

 

[EM2]

It always amazes me how people will try and get onto *any* train that arrives in a platform and stops, even if clearly displayed as being not in service.

I can’t really see how they would successfully be able to board as an ECS train wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) release doors in a platform.

I've seen people try and board the NR Flying Banana when it's stopped in a platform, when the platform screens are completely blank.

 

[jamesst]

I remember working a train out of a station with an island platform a while ago. (not going to name the station for reasons of still working at that company!).
My train one side of the platform, doors open, lights on, destination screens all set up. The mpv on the other side of the platform. 4 people asked me which train to get on...

 

[northwichcat]

I remember working a train out of a station with an island platform a while ago. (not going to name the station for reasons of still working at that company!).
My train one side of the platform, doors open, lights on, destination screens all set up. The mpv on the other side of the platform. 4 people asked me which train to get on...

Reminds me of the time Northern had left an out-of-service 323 with it's doors open on platform 4 at Piccadilly. Announcements and CIS displays had said passengers for the TPE Middlesbrough service should board the front train only at platform 4. The 323 got a lot of passengers boarding it before they were thrown off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reminds me of the time Northern had left an out-of-service 323 with it's doors open on platform 4 at Piccadilly. Announcements and CIS displays had said passengers for the TPE Middlesbrough service should board the front train only at platform 4. The 323 got a lot of passengers boarding it before they were thrown off.

The problem is that "front" can mean anything (well, anything other than the one in the middle if there are three).

Picc, like everywhere else, needs proper platform zoning. "Please board the train in the Blue Zone" (as was the norm at Preston for 2-car DMUs in the past) is much more useful. The best way would be if we stopped using a/b in the way we do and copied the Swiss model of splitting all platforms into A-F sections with clear signage and markings on the platform surface itself, and used that on the PIS.

(I note New St has the nifty little diagrams they have at Euston...but with no indication of which end's which, thereby making them useless).

Even "the departure end" is more useful than "front". Or even "furthest".

 

[Clip]

The problem is that "front" can mean anything (well, anything other than the one in the middle if there are three).

Picc, like everywhere else, needs proper platform zoning. "Please board the train in the Blue Zone" (as was the norm at Preston for 2-car DMUs in the past) is much more useful. The best way would be if we stopped using a/b in the way we do and copied the Swiss model of splitting all platforms into A-F sections with clear signage and markings on the platform surface itself, and used that on the PIS.

Maybe its just the people who are thick neil and no need for a swiss style anyhing as it seems to work well everywhere else from my experience

 

[Bromley boy]

I've seen people try and board the NR Flying Banana when it's stopped in a platform, when the platform screens are completely blank.

That doesn’t surprise me.

Mind you it might be deliberate - I’ve met a few enthusiasts who would give their eye teeth to ride on that .

 

[methethpropbut]

The problem is that "front" can mean anything (well, anything other than the one in the middle if there are three).

Picc, like everywhere else, needs proper platform zoning. "Please board the train in the Blue Zone" (as was the norm at Preston for 2-car DMUs in the past) is much more useful. The best way would be if we stopped using a/b in the way we do and copied the Swiss model of splitting all platforms into A-F sections with clear signage and markings on the platform surface itself, and used that on the PIS.

(I note New St has the nifty little diagrams they have at Euston...but with no indication of which end's which, thereby making them useless).

Even "the departure end" is more useful than "front". Or even "furthest".

Sheffield Station and the reversing Liverpool-Norwich service that splits at Nottingham come to mind in this case... That's mightily confusing especially for someone who doesn't know the railways and has no idea the train would be reversing there.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

My Southern train home on Friday night said "Not in service - there should not be any passengers on board this train - please leave immediately as the doors are about to close" all the way home. It was of course 1C36, completely in service and running normally. The driver said he couldn't change the PIS and the OBS clearly didn't look at the screens at any point although he did at least make normal announcements.
Of course the CIS screens on the plaform did say it was in service

Welcome to the forums @nickrh14 !

Are Southern's drivers and/or OBS not trained and/or not allowed to switch off or disable the PIS?

 

[driver9000]

No, it's not for that reason, if they wanted to keep passengers off for that reason they could (and should) lock the doors. It's simply because the Desiro PIS (350s are the same) reset to whatever is configured for "not in service" on arrival at the terminus automatically.

At Euston, generally, near enough everyone has boarded before the driver/guard (not sure who does it on 350s) has got round to putting the destination up.

Not on TPE Desiro units. The destination stays on its last setting until a new PIS code is entered or the batteries are pulled.

 

[BestWestern]

Picc, like everywhere else, needs proper platform zoning. "Please board the train in the Blue Zone" (as was the norm at Preston for 2-car DMUs in the past) is much more useful. The best way would be if we stopped using a/b in the way we do and copied the Swiss model of splitting all platforms into A-F sections with clear signage and markings on the platform surface itself, and used that on the PIS.

A to F?! How long are their platforms!?

 

[EM2]

A to F?! How long are their platforms!?

Can't be that long. Ebbsfleet's are marked the same (although afaik the system hasn't actually ever been used).

 

[moogal]

A to F?! How long are their platforms!?

A lot of large European stations I've used divide the platform into pretty much coach-length sections, so they can even tell you where to wait on the platform for your specific coach.

 

[A Challenge]

More than 6 coaches worth in most places, so A-F might not be enough!

 

[Bletchleyite]

A to F?! How long are their platforms!?

I'd say fairly typically about 240m-300m. That gives a letter for roughly every 2 coaches, which is about the granularity that is needed to make it actually useful.

Virgin West Coast have introduced a split of their platforms numerically (marked on the platform) which has 10 zones, FWIW.

 

[Bevan Price]

The amount of time the PIS displays incorrect information (or the on-train displays, which at Euston tend not to be set up until a couple of minutes before departure) it has little credibility so this is not surprising. A manual announcement can help, though, if people are listening (if! ) because people will generally believe the content of one of those.

Manual announcements are not always reliable, either.
Example 1 (Manchester Victoria): "The front portion of the train arriving at Platform 5 is the xx:xx to Huddersfield; the rear portion terminates here".
What arrived was a 2 car Pacer.

Example 2: (Manchester Piccadilly): "The front train at Platform 3 is the xx:xx to Hull".
The only train in the platform was a 185 for Hull.

 

[Crossover]

I have seen, on more than one occasion, Doncaster boards advertise the xx:xx service to Neville Hill T&RSMD - usually the empties from the evening VTEC Hull service. I am led to believe it is advertised as such so folk on the platform see it isn't their destination and don't try to board it. Personally, I wouldn't mind an evening trip to Neville Hill :P

 

[jon0844]

I've seen people try and board the NR Flying Banana when it's stopped in a platform, when the platform screens are completely blank.

How could you resist a ride on a flying banana though?!

King's Cross has problems with commuters boarding trains because their app has told them the platform, but the train coming in is splitting and the rear 4 or even 8 coming out of service. Before staff can lock the carriages out, people are getting on and then very angry to be told to get off and walk down, having now lost their 'competitive edge'.

At this point the train hasn't been put on the board deliberately.

 

[159]

It's funny taking a Virgin train at Watford Junction towards Euston: "This train is not for public use. Please do not board this train"

 

[Mutant Lemming]

When trains had slam doors and public address systems akin to those from 'Mr Hulot's Holiday' people didn't seem to board out of service trains. Now there are controlled doors, clearer public address announcements. visual displays, on board announcements it seems to be more of a problem.

 

[jon0844]

People now have access to apps that show the booked platforms, so it's common for 'unguarded' platforms to be full of people before a train even arrives.

At Euston they may try and protect the platforms, and St Pancras high level, but at King's Cross it's pretty much a free-for-all and presumably like this at many other stations too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They don’t protect the platforms at Euston. And commuters knew them for years before RTT. It really is time the charade of hiding platform numbers ended. If you don’t want people getting on, lock the doors.

 

[otomous]

Welcome to the forums @nickrh14 !

Are Southern's drivers and/or OBS not trained and/or not allowed to switch off or disable the PIS?

The driver certainly can. That doesn’t mean that every driver knows that!