Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

[dk1]

Unless the frequency is upped to 3tph, how can one have Norwich in 90 every hour and not cut intermediate calls though?

Not expecting it to go hourly. Will go 3tph additionally between 0900-1000 & 1700-1800 up road, 1100-1200 & 1900-2000 down Mondays to Saturdays from next month.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/great-western-railway-bring-back-the-buffet

Petition to bring back buffets on GWr long distance services. Only takes a minute and the more signatures the more likely something will be done . After all if LNER can have buffets why shouldn't GWR. Certainly should be feasible with the 802s .....

Why would anyone want less seats on what is an inter-urban railway?

Take equivalent Intercity services in France; Paris-Le Havre, Paris-Cherbourg, Paris-Boulogne they are all journeys of 2-3 hours, Intercity trains, no buffet car, indeed no catering....

 

[irish_rail]

Why would anyone want less seats on what is an inter-urban railway?

Take equivalent Intercity services in France; Paris-Le Havre, Paris-Cherbourg, Paris-Boulogne they are all journeys of 2-3 hours, Intercity trains, no buffet car, indeed no catering....

Or how about we stick to comparisons in this country shall we?
Buffets on, Kgx to Newark, London to Norwich, Kgx to Leeds, St Pancras to Nottingham, Euston to Birmingham, Aberdeen to Inverness to name just a very few examples.
And you give examples of 2 to 3 hour trips in France well journeys of 3 to 5 hours are a better comparison and London to Penzance is more intercity than inter urban..

 

[dk1]

Why would anyone want less seats on what is an inter-urban railway?

Take equivalent Intercity services in France; Paris-Le Havre, Paris-Cherbourg, Paris-Boulogne they are all journeys of 2-3 hours, Intercity trains, no buffet car, indeed no catering....

Typical France for you. No way would we want to lower ourselves to their level of onboard service. They've been dire for many a year.

 

[Mag_seven]

GWR weren't allowed to choose buffets, the DFT decided they would get a trolley, and GWR are stuck with it, whether they approve or not.

And there lies the problem - on train service provision being decided by faceless bureaucrats rather than by railwaymen.

 

[mmh]

I can go two hours without a cup of tea (although I'd prefer not to!)

On a train I don't care if it's come from a buffet counter or a trolley though, it's all the same.

 

[irish_rail]

I can go two hours without a cup of tea (although I'd prefer not to!)

On a train I don't care if it's come from a buffet counter or a trolley though, it's all the same.

Except lots of people ARE complaining about the quality of the coffee from the trolley compared to the buffets...

 

[trebor79]

I can go two hours without a cup of tea (although I'd prefer not to!)

On a train I don't care if it's come from a buffet counter or a trolley though, it's all the same.

No it's not. At a buffet counter the tea will likely be made with boiling water. From a trolley it's made with hot water, which as any fule kno does not make a decent cup of tea.

 

[hexagon789]

No it's not. At a buffet counter the tea will likely be made with boiling water. From a trolley it's made with hot water, which as any fule kno does not make a decent cup of tea.

Generally it's recommended tea is made with hot water not boiling water though. Boiling water spoils the tea.

 

[trebor79]

Yes, just off a rolling boil. Hot water put of a flask is nowhere near hot enough.

I once asked for a cup of tea on a Eurostar. The buffet car attendant put some water in a cup, let it sit for a minute of so whilst she faffed with the till, then plonked it and a tea bag on the counter in front of me.
I asked her to make it properly, so she huffed, put the tea bag into another cup and poured the water from the original cup into it.
Much huffing and puffing when I said I wasn't paying 2.50 for that and she needed to make it properly, with water directly out of the boiling water tap into the cup already containing a tea bag.
Eventually got what I wanted. I'd rather have nothing than a cup of tea made with warm water.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Or how about we stick to comparisons in this country shall we?
Buffets on, Kgx to Newark, London to Norwich, Kgx to Leeds, St Pancras to Nottingham, Euston to Birmingham, Aberdeen to Inverness to name just a very few examples.
And you give examples of 2 to 3 hour trips in France well journeys of 3 to 5 hours are a better comparison and London to Penzance is more intercity than inter urban..

Ok we’ll stick with this country then, Paddington to Penzance is a route often quiet out of holiday time/summer season in terms of through journeys London to Cornwall, hence why in BR days the buffet would come off at Plymouth.

In the summer it is very difficult to match capacity to demand, 4-5 hours standing or those extra 16 seats per train which equates to maybe 100 less standing people a day...

As for dedicating 9 cars to Cornwall the 9 car 802s were built as a batch for North Cotswolds and West Country, on the North Cotswolds the average commuter is far more interested in a seat.

You talk about comparisons in this country how about Waterloo to Bournemouth and Exeter, like western routes this are a mix of ‘Intercity’ and ‘Commuter’ traffic, not dissimilar to the run down to Exeter from Paddington. Indeed Bournemouth was the last London and South East route with buffets which are finally now going as the 444s are refurbed as passengers have asked for more seats instead...

Ideally we’d have the space for enough seats, a buffet etc but our constrained by length railways makes that impossible.

 

[dk1]

You talk about comparisons in this country how about Waterloo to Bournemouth and Exeter, like western routes this are a mix of ‘Intercity’ and ‘Commuter’ traffic, not dissimilar to the run down to Exeter from Paddington. Indeed Bournemouth was the last London and South East route with buffets which are finally now going as the 444s are replaced as passengers have asked for more seats instead...

Ideally we’d have the space for enough seats, a buffet etc but our constrained by length railways makes that impossible.

I was under the impression that the 444s where remaining with SWR.

 

[hexagon789]

I was under the impression that the 444s where remaining with SWR.

They are but the buffets are getting removed and First Class re-configured.

 

[dk1]

They are but the buffets are getting removed and First Class re-configured.

That's a pity. Last year coming back from Weymouth the steward/host announced that the buffet counter was open & a trolley would also join us at Dorchester. Was just like being on the ECML or GEML. The Network Express lives on

 

[hexagon789]

That's a pity. Last year coming back from Weymouth the steward/host announced that the buffet counter was open & a trolley would also join us at Dorchester. Was just like being on the ECML or GEML. The Network Express lives on

I think the proper Network Express sadly died when the 442s were transferred away from their original duties.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They are but the buffets are getting removed and First Class re-configured.

My error with auto correct, should have been ‘refurbed’

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That's a pity. Last year coming back from Weymouth the steward/host announced that the buffet counter was open & a trolley would also join us at Dorchester. Was just like being on the ECML or GEML. The Network Express lives on

Again I’m sure a commuter given the choice of a buffet or a seat would always go for a seat. This is coming from someone who used to stand at the buffet on the way home from work, so I’m not anti buffet I’m just trying to be realistic on the modern railway - passenger numbers have doubled but the amount of capacity hasn’t doubled and the buffet is something that’s gone by the wayside to accommodate these extra people.

 

[jimm]

And you give examples of 2 to 3 hour trips in France well journeys of 3 to 5 hours are a better comparison and London to Penzance is more intercity than inter urban..

Well we could go with the example from France of the Ouigo bargain-basement TGV services - the number of which operating was considerably increased just last December, with more to come in time for the summer holiday season. Full-service TGVs are being cut back to provide some of the paths needed.

Paris to Nice on a Ouigo service takes just under six hours. Paris-Toulouse, starting in July, will be 4 hrs 30 mins, to take but two examples of journey times.

Ouigo services have no catering, no first class, a compulsory 30 minutes in advance check-in time and it's two euros extra to use the wifi and five euros extra for large items of luggage.

 

[hexagon789]

My error with auto correct, should have been ‘refurbed’

Easily done, thanks for clarifying though

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Must confess never seen the attraction in buffets myself. Sky high prices for mediocre food. Always bring my own snacks whether it is 2½ hours on the train or 4-5 hours on the coach. I can survive without a hot drink for a few hours. I refuse to pay £2 for a teabag swimming in boiling water in a disposable cup.

I think we have the wrong approach in the UK. Rather than setting prices at a reasonable level (cost plus a bit) the attitude seems to be "how much can we get away with charging?"

Obviously there's going to be a bit of a mark-up, but buffet/trolley prices on the continent seem to be about 30-50% more than the high street. Here it's more like 100%. For example a coffee from the trolley on Ćesky Drahy is about 3 Kr (or around £1.20). On pretty much all UK operators it's double that.

 

[Adsy125]

The 444 buffets haven't been used for a very long time, they have been trolleys only for as long as I've been in the area (since 2008) and the times it pretends to be open it's just the trolley in the buffet section. I'm not aware that there are ever trolleys west of Bournemouth either.

 

[irish_rail]

Well we could go with the example from France of the Ouigo bargain-basement TGV services - the number of which operating was considerably increased just last December, with more to come in time for the summer holiday season. Full-service TGVs are being cut back to provide some of the paths needed.

Paris to Nice on a Ouigo service takes just under six hours. Paris-Toulouse, starting in July, will be 4 hrs 30 mins, to take but two examples of journey times.

Ouigo services have no catering, no first class, a compulsory 30 minutes in advance check-in time and it's two euros extra to use the wifi and five euros extra for large items of luggage.

Except, the Paddington to Penzance route is not exactly bargain basement. If anything it's a premium fare, there are plenty of people I k ow in Plymouth who cannot afford to use the train. We are not talking about budget airline priced tickets here....

 

[dk1]

The 444 buffets haven't been used for a very long time, they have been trolleys only for as long as I've been in the area (since 2008) and the times it pretends to be open it's just the trolley in the buffet section. I'm not aware that there are ever trolleys west of Bournemouth either.

Was both when I used it. I was very impressed especially so far west.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Except, the Paddington to Penzance route is not exactly bargain basement. If anything it's a premium fare, there are plenty of people I k ow in Plymouth who cannot afford to use the train. We are not talking about budget airline priced tickets here....

More seats should allow for a higher percentage of AP tickets to be released on some trains....

 

[alxndr]

Isn’t it all a bit late in the day now? Class 80x have been around for over a year now, surely this campaign would have stood a better chance in the early days, if not before the trains entered service at all.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The 444 buffets haven't been used for a very long time, they have been trolleys only for as long as I've been in the area (since 2008) and the times it pretends to be open it's just the trolley in the buffet section. I'm not aware that there are ever trolleys west of Bournemouth either.

Reminds me of seeing the old 4-BEPs on SWT, with their shuttered counters and "snug" areas. A bit of a surprise when one showed up on a Kingston circular!

 

[irish_rail]

Ok we’ll stick with this country then, Paddington to Penzance is a route often quiet out of holiday time/summer season in terms of through journeys London to Cornwall, hence why in BR days the buffet would come off at Plymouth.

In the summer it is very difficult to match capacity to demand, 4-5 hours standing or those extra 16 seats per train which equates to maybe 100 less standing people a day...

As for dedicating 9 cars to Cornwall the 9 car 802s were built as a batch for North Cotswolds and West Country, on the North Cotswolds the average commuter is far more interested in a seat.

You talk about comparisons in this country how about Waterloo to Bournemouth and Exeter, like western routes this are a mix of ‘Intercity’ and ‘Commuter’ traffic, not dissimilar to the run down to Exeter from Paddington. Indeed Bournemouth was the last London and South East route with buffets which are finally now going as the 444s are refurbed as passengers have asked for more seats instead...

Ideally we’d have the space for enough seats, a buffet etc but our constrained by length railways makes that impossible.

I'll repeat myself shall I, yes the Paddington to Penzance route is busy all year round now except perhaps Nov Jan and feb. People take far more mini breaks than was the case traditionally and there are large populations in cities like Plymouth who want to travel.

You talk about sharing the 802s with north Cotswold and are a right those guys are all about 3very seat which is why north Cotswold should be using the 800s and the 5 car 802s, with buffets put into the 9 car 802s for wofe services. There are plenty of 9 car 800s for the Cotswold peak trains.

And please stop equating the wofe route to London to Exeter. Yes at 2 hours 15 it is not the longest in the world ( though longer than London to Leeds, Liverpool , or manchester) but the same trains continue on to Plymouth an of Cornwall which is an additional 3 hours after Exeter!!! It's like saying the London Inverness train shouldn't have buffets because some passengers are only going as far as York.

 

[irish_rail]

Isn’t it all a bit late in the day now? Class 80x have been around for over a year now, surely this campaign would have stood a better chance in the early days, if not before the trains entered service at all.

Perhaps but apparently there is a review going on now and GWR are finally admitting there is a problem. Eventually a compromise will have to be found.
For the sake of one minute to sign the petition it's better than not bothering and admitting defeat. What is the worst that could happen?

 

[hexagon789]

It's like saying the London Inverness train shouldn't have buffets because some passengers are only going as far as York.

Perhaps they shouldn't, I was actually surprised VTEC specified buffets.

Do we really gain anything important by having a buffet?

 

[irish_rail]

Perhaps they shouldn't, I was actually surprised VTEC specified buffets.

Do we really gain anything important by having a buffet?

A matter of a opinion I guess. But talking to colleagues the main two complaints by far on pad to Penzance is seating and lack of buffets.