Pick up/set down only?

[telstarbox]

I've seen some timetables have stops marked as "pick up only" or "set down only". Are these actually enforced, or is it just to encourage people onto more suitable services - like the slow Watford - Euston services that are shown as stopping short so people get the fast ones?

 

[merlodlliw]

They are enforced as far as W/S is concerned, no pick up at Wolves only set down on the up, only pick up on the down. this is due to anti compi by Vt trains
until 2012.

I always recall set down at Watford only on the VT ups from Nth Wales

 

[bradders1983]

I remember a few years ago, Virgin brought in a "set down only" at Wakefield Westgate on the first train after 1700 from Leeds, obviously to try and help overcrowding and force commuters to use the slower trains to Doncaster/Sheffield, or the bigger GNER trains to London Kings X.

However it didnt work (tickets never used to be checked between the two because the train was still far too busy, and there are no barriers at Wakefield Westgate), and there were many grumblings, so it vanished in the next timetable change!

 

[jopsuk]

Boarding a "set down" service is rather easier to enforce (and does get enforced) than the opposite, with it being treated (I think) as travelling without a valid ticket. Pretty sure this has been thourghly tested and found to be legal. It is something that's existed since well before privitisation.

I think "set down" stops can (as long as everyone that wants off is off, and the path is clear) depart early, too.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Virgin used to have u/s at Stockport from Manchester, and still have them in place at Glasgow/Motherwell, Watford is on services to Euston, and on some services (especially late night ones), places like Sandwell & Dudley are too, and on the 1846 Preston loco-hauled set, all stations are set-down. I think it is principally to relieve short-term overcrownding, and avoid competition. Reading may have some too on GWML services, and Taunton and Reading are u/s only on the Sleeper.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

And what if you already hold a ticket valid from the previous stop on a set down only train, eg an ALR?

The last time I looked the notices or whatever simply warned that a person boarding at a set down only would be charged the full standard single fare from the previous picking up point on the train in question. The ALR clearly is already valid from whatever that station might be - would they therefore, for this purpose, ignore the ALR or whatever other ticket was held was not present and treat the passenger as totally unticketed?

 

[Lampshade]

Exactly, when Stockport was set down only northbound on the London - Manchester route, people got stung for the full fare from Euston but if they had an ALR it would have been valid as if they'd got on at Euston anyway... surely.

 

[scotsman]

There was a story that TPE were stopping passengers leaving trains from Edinburgh at Haymarket.

 

[bradders1983]

There was a story that TP were stopping passengers leaving trains from Edinburgh at Haymarket.

How on earth could they do that? The doors still need to open to let people on there. And when I was there last week the train used an unbarriered platform at Waverly. Even if it did use a barriered platform, ScotRail staff wouldnt care less.

Plus if it doesnt say as much in the official timetable, FTP dont have a leg to stand on.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've seen some timetables have stops marked as "pick up only" or "set down only". Are these actually enforced, or is it just to encourage people onto more suitable services - like the slow Watford - Euston services that are shown as stopping short so people get the fast ones?

Watford Jn always seems to be pretty firmly enforced by Virgin platform staff.
Virgin likely get no revenue for Euston to Watford Jn fares, as theoretically they don't provide a service.

 

[b0b]

Exactly, when Stockport was set down only northbound on the London - Manchester route, people got stung for the full fare from Euston but if they had an ALR it would have been valid as if they'd got on at Euston anyway... surely.

I'm pretty sure we had this discussion and we decided that is still not valid even if the ticket is valid from the station where you can board without the set down only restriction.

Which leaves the rather amusing possibility you could be required to buy a ticket from the station where you can board, even with holding a First Class ALR.

 

[nedchester]

I'm pretty sure we had this discussion and we decided that is still not valid even if the ticket is valid from the station where you can board without the set down only restriction.

Which leaves the rather amusing possibility you could be required to buy a ticket from the station where you can board, even with holding a First Class ALR.

I bet a court would see that differently?!

 

[GodAtum]

On the fast service from Waterloo - Guildford there are pickup/set down rules at Clapham junction.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Boarding a "set down" service is rather easier to enforce (and does get enforced) than the opposite, with it being treated (I think) as travelling without a valid ticket. Pretty sure this has been thourghly tested and found to be legal. It is something that's existed since well before privitisation.

I think "set down" stops can (as long as everyone that wants off is off, and the path is clear) depart early, too.

The 2330 Kings Cross to Leeds is set down only all the way and can leave intermediate stops as early as it likes

 

[bradders1983]

The 2330 Kings Cross to Leeds is set down only all the way and can leave intermediate stops as early as it likes

The timetable also says it taken 1h13 to get from Doncaster to Leeds??

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Document...Weekdays - Northbound 24.05.10 - 10.12.10.pdf

 

[sheff1]

Exactly, when Stockport was set down only northbound on the London - Manchester route, people got stung for the full fare from Euston but if they had an ALR it would have been valid as if they'd got on at Euston anyway... surely.

Has there ever being a time when trains were scheduled to run non stop from Euston to Stockport ?

Or are you refering to trains where all the stops were set down only, in which case the only possibilities I can think of is the last train from London on a Saturday night (to cater for potential engineering diversions) or the good old sleeper. Were people really boarding these at Stockport in the early hours and being charged from Euston ?

 

[YorkshireRider]

The timetable also says it taken 1h13 to get from Doncaster to Leeds??

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Document...Weekdays - Northbound 24.05.10 - 10.12.10.pdf

For driver route learning reasons it more often than not goes via Pontefract off the mainline hense why it does not call at Wakefield Westgate

 

[Lampshade]

Has there ever being a time when trains were scheduled to run non stop from Euston to Stockport ?

I believe there were a few in the early days of Virgin, pre-Pendolino.

 

[ainsworth74]

The timetable also says it taken 1h13 to get from Doncaster to Leeds?

I note that it doesn't call at Wakefield so could well be diverted onto diversionary routes to help retain route knowledge. Either that or its padded out to cater for possible engineering work.

 

[bradders1983]

For driver route learning reasons it more often than not goes via Pontefract off the mainline hense why it does not call at Wakefield Westgate

Why would an East Coast driver need to learn that route? Surely this is the only train of the day that goes that way? Unless it is used as a diversionary route of course.

And is this the same HST set that goes to Aberdeen later that morning?

 

[Failed Unit]

The 2330 Kings Cross to Leeds is set down only all the way and can leave intermediate stops as early as it likes

I think that is the reason why Glasgow Queen Street - Edinburgh services are also stop to set down only at Haymarket, if they turn up early they can go again. I understand it is the same at London Bridge for city bound services from longer distances. Prevents blocking a platform if it is early.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why would an East Coast driver need to learn that route? Surely this is the only train of the day that goes that way? Unless it is used as a diversionary route of course.

That will probably be why, many TOC's do the same thing such as the various XC routings of the Edinburgh Suburban line.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Has there ever being a time when trains were scheduled to run non stop from Euston to Stockport ?

There's the headline Manchester-London VT service in the morning that calls only at Stockport:
Man P: 0700
Stockport: 0707
Euston: 0858

 

[YorkshireRider]

Why would an East Coast driver need to learn that route? Surely this is the only train of the day that goes that way? Unless it is used as a diversionary route of course.

And is this the same HST set that goes to Aberdeen later that morning?

Officially yes it is a diversionary route but have to say whenever theres a problem on the mainline Leeds to Doncaster the route thats always used is via Hambleton so it does seem a bit pointless.
Yes if the booked workings are kept to the same HST will run 0710 LDS-ABERDEEN, 1450 ABERDEEN-KINGS X, 2330 KINGS X-LDS all week MON to FRI

 

[bradders1983]

Officially yes it is a diversionary route but have to say whenever theres a problem on the mainline Leeds to Doncaster the route thats always used is via Hambleton so it does seem a bit pointless.
Yes if the booked workings are kept to the same HST will run 0710 LDS-ABERDEEN, 1450 ABERDEEN-KINGS X, 2330 KINGS X-LDS all week MON to FRI

So I would imagine by the time the train gets to Doncaster, all tickets checks should have been performed.

So what is stopping someone getting on at Doncaster to go to Leeds? Surely the ticket inspector doesnt come round again after Doncaster?

Or is the station closed, and only opened to allow the passengers off?

 

[shinkansen1966]

The timetable also says it taken 1h13 to get from Doncaster to Leeds??

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Document...Weekdays - Northbound 24.05.10 - 10.12.10.pdf

It's an HST, not an electric. So it could take a number of routes between Doncaster and Leeds. Probably still arrives into Leeds 20 minutes early.

Anyone been on this absurd service ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The timetable also says it taken 1h13 to get from Doncaster to Leeds??

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Document...Weekdays - Northbound 24.05.10 - 10.12.10.pdf

deleted post.

 

[Failed Unit]

It's an HST, not an electric. So it could take a number of routes between Doncaster and Leeds. Probably still arrives into Leeds 20 minutes early.

Anyone been on this absurd service ?

Only as far as Newark on a Friday night, it was not as empty as I would have expected either!

 

[142094]

It's an HST, not an electric. So it could take a number of routes between Doncaster and Leeds. Probably still arrives into Leeds 20 minutes early.

I've been on it (when it was the last NXEC from KGX). I can't actually remember if it did go through Wakefield Westgate or stop there, but I'm guessing it didn't.

Was on the 23.49 Doncaster - York last night and this goes via Ferrybridge and Church Fenton.

 

[b0b]

I bet a court would see that differently?!

I wouldn't be so sure, trying to board a train where you are not permitted to do so sounds a bit like trespass.

 

[Old Timer]

I wouldn't be so sure, trying to board a train where you are not permitted to do so sounds a bit like trespass.

Principal issue was passengers joining at a set down, who were excessed to previous booked stop, or who would travel and then attempt to buy say a Watford Jct to Euston for a set-down only train in an attempt to avoid the middle part of the journey (i.e. Stoke to Watford Jct)

There is a long history of this being enforced under BR (especially at Euston) and succesful prosecutions where there was deliberate premeditated fare evasion.

 

[b0b]

Principal issue was passengers joining at a set down, who were excessed to previous booked stop.

But the excess, although is the same price as the fare from the previous booked stop for pick up to the next booked stop for set down, should not be considered a fare.

Hence why I think we agreed you could still get one even if you're travelling with the First Class ALR.