Please Help I’m so stressed out!

[25797]

Today I stupidly decided to use my mums staff nominee Oyster card.

It’s the 1st of the month and I was intending to add a monthly Travelcard to my oyster.

However due to running late and figuring there’s no way I'll be able to queue at the Oyster machine for ages and make it on time to work I took my mums oyster.

I tapped in at my station and when I tapped out at the station to get to work a staff who works in the underground stopped me and asked to see the ID.

I showed her and said it’s my mums, I shouldn’t have used it but it was just for today. And she took me to the side and said I can’t use it and asked me a few questions such as where I travelled from (zone 2 to zone 1).

She also asked for my name and address and how I usually travel with tfl and I said I either monthly travel or single fares.

She knew I was in a rush and explained she has to take the card. She said I’ll get a letter and I can respond to the letter to explain the situation and also she has her notes down.

After that she showed me the caution thing on the back and read it and she tapped me out and let me go.

I’m really stressed out because I recently got my graduate job and I’m training to be a chartered accountant. I don’t want to get any criminal convictions and risk my entire future how likely is it that it’ll get taken to court and what should I do when receiving the letter.

 

[Brissle Girl]

As well as considering the impact on you, and your future employment, I think you should also be considering the effect on your mother’s employment position, the difference being that (presumably) she is an innocent party in the situation she finds herself in(and moreover no longer has her pass, so presumably will be disadvantaged financially).

The usual advice is to wait until you are contacted, show remorse and ask if they are willing to come to a settlement. If they do, take whatever they offer you, regardless of cost. However, I suspect your Mum’s involvement will complicate matters.

As a trainee chartered accountant look very carefully at what your obligations are in the event that you are convicted, as some professional bodies require you to report any matters which could throw into doubt your integrity or be seen to be bringing the profession into disrepute.

Contactless is your friend if you forget or haven’t loaded up your oyster card by the way.

 

[ninhog]

There’s also a good chance your mother will have her nominee pass privilege revoked and whoever is the TfL employee may be called in for a meeting with their bosses about the misuse of the pass.

 

[25797]

As well as considering the impact on you, and your future employment, I think you should also be considering the effect on your mother’s employment position, the difference being that (presumably) she is an innocent party in the situation she finds herself in(and moreover no longer has her pass, so presumably will be disadvantaged financially).

The usual advice is to wait until you are contacted, show remorse and ask if they are willing to come to a settlement. If they do, take whatever they offer you, regardless of cost. However, I suspect your Mum’s involvement will complicate matters.

As a trainee chartered accountant look very carefully at what your obligations are in the event that you are convicted, as some professional bodies require you to report any matters which could throw into doubt your integrity or be seen to be bringing the profession into disrepute.

Contactless is your friend if you forget or haven’t loaded up your oyster card by the way.

Thanks for your reply, yes I didn’t think of the consequences and seriously regret it. Usually how long do they take to send a letter? I did ask the lady if my mum could get it back and she said possible but she’s unsure. Reading other threads has really scared me to think tfl will take it to court.

 

[25797]

There’s also a good chance your mother will have her nominee pass privilege revoked and whoever is the TfL employee may be called in for a meeting with their bosses about the misuse of the pass.

I really hope it doesn’t get to the stage where meetings have to be called also the lady at the station took the card, so does that mean it’s revoked or there’s a possibility of her getting it back?

 

[Puffing Devil]

I really hope it doesn’t get to the stage where meetings have to be called also the lady at the station took the card, so does that mean it’s revoked or there’s a possibility of her getting it back?

That's a decision for TfL.

You've also put your mum in a very difficult position. She will be asked if she gave permission for you to use the pass. If she says yes, there's a strong chance she will lose the pass and maybe more, if she's the employee. If she says no, then you could be looking at a theft charge, as you took something which did not belong to you without permission.

You can be sure that TfL will also be looking at the journey history to see if any of the previous trips match those that you took today.

There's not much you can do until TfL get in touch. Misuse of a staff pass is very serious and you will most likely be heading for court. When TfL do post back and you will get advice on how to reply, though it is important that you are honest.

 

[furlong]

If she says no, then you could be looking at a theft charge, as you took something which did not belong to you without permission..

Can you provide references to examples where this actually happened? Otherwise, how does borrowing meet the definition of theft that requires evidence of an intention to permanently deprive?

 

[nuts & bolts]

Can you provide references to examples where this actually happened? Otherwise, how does borrowing meet the definition of theft that requires evidence of an intention to permanently deprive?

If you borrow something it's usually with permission from the owner, if you take an item without permission it's stealing or theft.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you borrow something it's usually with permission from the owner, if you take an item without permission it's stealing or theft.

Theft requires proof of an intent to permanently deprive the owner. There is no such proof or even suspicion here.

 

[cuccir]

We had a not dissimilar case about a year ago. In some ways not helpful as it went oddly quiet from TfL which is very unusual, but still may be of some use.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I’d be surprised if they pursue a charge of theft, which could be rejected, when they have a slam dunk case of travelling without a valid ticket. So not sure it is worth debating that point in too much depth, as I doubt it will be of assistance to the OP.

 

[najaB]

Otherwise, how does borrowing meet the definition of theft that requires evidence of an intention to permanently deprive?

I agree this is a side discussion, but theft doesn't require you to intend to permanently deprive, it just requires that you take the item without permission and are unable to return it:

6 “With the intention of permanently depriving the other of it”.

(1)A person appropriating property belonging to another without meaning the other permanently to lose the thing itself is nevertheless to be regarded as having the intention of permanently depriving the other of it if his intention is to treat the thing as his own to dispose of regardless of the other’s rights; and a borrowing or lending of it may amount to so treating it if, but only if, the borrowing or lending is for a period and in circumstances making it equivalent to an outright taking or disposal.

(2)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) above, where a person, having possession or control (lawfully or not) of property belonging to another, parts with the property under a condition as to its return which he may not be able to perform, this (if done for purposes of his own and without the other’s authority) amounts to treating the property as his own to dispose of regardless of the other’s rights.

I’d be surprised if they pursue a charge of theft, which could be rejected, when they have a slam dunk case of travelling without a valid ticket.

Yes. They are much more likely to go for a Regulation of Railways Act prosecution and withdraw the staff pass.

 

[221129]

I strongly suspect that what happens will depend largely on what your mum says when questioned.

If she let you have it, then bye bye passes and someone is likely to get in some serious trouble.

If she says no then I would suspect you will be off to court.

 

[nuts & bolts]

Theft requires proof of an intent to permanently deprive the owner. There is no such proof or even suspicion here.

The owner of the nominee card is TFL who have been deprived of revenue!
There is a possibility of BTP being involved due to the asset being used fraudulently as per the OP's own words.

So we are in a slightly different ballgame here not to be confused with fraudulent use of a relatives Freedom Pass.

 

[25797]

Okay theft is really stretching it. I did not steal it from my mum, and I had no intention on keeping it and continuing to use it, I am not that stupid.

That's a decision for TfL.

You've also put your mum in a very difficult position. She will be asked if she gave permission for you to use the pass. If she says yes, there's a strong chance she will lose the pass and maybe more, if she's the employee. If she says no, then you could be looking at a theft charge, as you took something which did not belong to you without permission.

You can be sure that TfL will also be looking at the journey history to see if any of the previous trips match those that you took today.

There's not much you can do until TfL get in touch. Misuse of a staff pass is very serious and you will most likely be heading for court. When TfL do post back and you will get advice on how to reply, though it is important that you are honest.

Guys I just wanted to add do they consider the amount of the journey. It was really £2.90. Also I wanted to add as I graduated this year I‘m still entitled to use my 18+ oyster which expires on the 31st of October. In order for me to make a monthly travel card for September i’d have to make it on the 1st to 31st. After the 1st it’s not possible for me to make a monthly one. My intention was to create my monthly oyster online via my account when I had the time during the day. In the morning I was in a rush I was already running late oyster wasn’t even in my work bag, so I obviously made the dumb decision to use my mums nominee pass thinking it’d be okay plus when I make my monthly travel I’d have to start it from the 1st of September anyway so they’d be taking my money regardless. I’m a young person money doesn’t grow on trees. If I was thinking right early in the morning and had a brain storm about my actions I obviously wouldn’t have done that.

Thank you to everyone else who’s actually trying to advice me and give me an idea of what to expect. At the end of the day I understand what I done is wrong but for TFL to prosecute me over £2.90 they’d receive from me anyway is quite evil. I live in zone 2 and even I suffer from the terrible service of the northern line and Thames link on a regular basis, and I always pay. Something really needs to be done about the laws surrounding all this, there’s actually real life crime in this world.

What’s BTP?
Also are u trying to say it’s worse than using someone’s freedom pass?
Using an old person’s freedom pass is worse. The person using it is clearly not 60+.

I used my mums staff nominee pass for a day. If I wanted to I could have asked to change the pass and for me to be the nominee but I haven’t I’d rather my mum have it and I pay for my own oyster. My mum barely even uses it so had I of been the actual nominee which I had the opportunity to be TFL would of been deprived of much more revenue.

The owner of the nominee card is TFL who have been deprived of revenue!
There is a possibility of BTP being involved due to the asset being used fraudulently as per the OP's own words.

So we are in a slightly different ballgame here not to be confused with fraudulent use of a relatives Freedom Pass.

I’ve been feeling stressed out and anxious about this since the incident yesterday. How long do TFL usually take to write a letter? Also when they do, do they have a number or anything I can call to speak to whoever is dealing with it?

We had a not dissimilar case about a year ago. In some ways not helpful as it went oddly quiet from TfL which is very unusual, but still may be of some use.

what do u mean it went oddly quiet from TfL?

 

[30907]

Thank you to everyone else who’s actually trying to advice me and give me an idea of what to expect. At the end of the day I understand what I done is wrong but for TFL to prosecute me over £2.90 they’d receive from me anyway is quite evil. I live in zone 2 and even I suffer from the terrible service of the northern line and Thames link on a regular basis, and I always pay. Something really needs to be done about the laws surrounding all this, there’s actually real life crime in this world.

I'm sorry you are stressed out. People on here will challenge anyone's story (robustly at times) if it appears not to add up. Unfortunately, similar stories appear quite regularly on here.
You have, I think, explained enough about the unusual circumstances.

I am afraid it can take time for rail operators to respond, so you will have to wait.

 

[221129]

The questions being asked on here will be nothing compared to what the prosecutor will be asking you in court. And court is 100% going to be where the case is going unless you change your attitude to the situation you're in. And the BTP is short for the British Transport Police who may well be interested if TfL bring this fraud to their attention.

 

[25797]

I’m obviously aware what I’ve done is wrong, I made a thread for help and advice. When I explained to the lady at the station she seemed to understand it but she had to go by the rules. I don’t have a bad attitude about what’s happened it’s just annoying to see someone questioning why I had the card when I’ve already explained. If TFL were to question it I’d tell them the situation exactly which I already did. It’s not nice for someone to come on here and try to make me feel worse than I already am.

I cant see anyone trolling on here, however the questions being asked on here will be nothing compared to what the prosecutor will be asking you in court. And court is 100% going to be where the case is going unless you change your attitude to the situation you're in. And the BTP is short for the British Transport Police who may well be interested if TfL bring this fraud to their attention.

 

[25797]

Thanks for your response, everyone says they take a while, I was wondering if this means a few days, a few weeks, months? I’m really scared

I'm sorry you are stressed out. People on here are not trolls, but they will challenge anyone's story (robustly at times) if it appears not to add up. Unfortunately, similar stories appear quite regularly on here.
You have, I think, explained enough about the unusual circumstances.

I am afraid it can take time for rail operators to respond, so you will have to wait.

 

[nuts & bolts]

What’s BTP?
Also are u trying to say it’s worse than using someone’s freedom pass?
Using an old person’s freedom pass is worse. The person using it is clearly not 60+.

I used my mums staff nominee pass for a day. If I wanted to I could have asked to change the pass and for me to be the nominee but I haven’t I’d rather my mum have it and I pay for my own oyster. My mum barely even uses it so had I of been the actual nominee which I had the opportunity to be TFL would of been deprived of much more revenue.

Hi again

Check this post by @Dyda who used a Freedom Pass not belonging to them:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...caught-and-received-a-letter-from-tfl.173719/

If you read through the whole post it will give an insight to individuals applying for work with companies who require a DBS (disclosure service check).

If you finally graduate as a Chartered Accountant or wish to work in the Financial Sector you will require a DBS check.

The BTP are the British Transport Police, they will investigate crime at the request of TFL when dealing with employees and their dependants.

Finally, just await for communication from TFL It may well be your mother who hears first but until that time arrives just sit tight there is nothing you can do to expedite the situation currently.

Please keep us updated with any news.

Hope this helps

 

[6Gman]

Today I stupidly decided to use my mums staff nominee Oyster card. It’s the 1st of the month and I was intending to do a monthly travel card on my oyster. However due to running late and figuring there’s no way i’ll be able to queue at the oyster machine for ages and make it on time to work I took my mums oyster. I tapped in at my station and when I tapped out at the station to get to work a staff who works in the underground stopped me and asked to see the ID. I showed her and said it’s my mums, I shouldn’t of used it but it was just for today. And she took me to the side and said I can’t use it and asked me a few questions such as where I travelled from (zone 2 to zone 1). She also asked for my name and address and how I usually travel with tfl and I said I either monthly travel or single fares. She knew I was in a rush and explained she has to take the card. She said I’ll get a letter and I can respond to the letter to explain the situation and also she has her notes down. After that she showed me the caution thing on the back and read it and she tapped me out and let me go. I’m really stressed out because I recently got my graduate job and I’m training to be a chartered accountant. I don’t want to get any criminal convictions and risk my entire future how likely is it that it’ll get taken to court and what should I do when receiving the letter.

Couple of things here that I don't fully understand - largely because, although I have an Oyster card, I just use it to tap in and out on single journeys. You say you were "intending to do a monthly travel card" on your oyster. Was there any reason you couldn't just have tapped in and out for a single journey? You refer to normally using "either monthly or single fares". So was there a reason for not using a single fare that day?

 

[25797]

Thanks! I think I read that one when I was panicking yesterday .

Yes I’ll just wait I guess. Yesterday I was in complete panic mode, I thought they’d write to me the next day but after reading posts I’ll probably be waiting for weeks.

Hi again

Check this post by @Dyda who used a Freedom Pass not belonging to them:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...caught-and-received-a-letter-from-tfl.173719/

If you read through the whole post it will give an insight to individuals applying for work with companies who require a DBS (disclosure service check).

If you finally graduate as a Chartred Accountant or wish to work in the Financial Sector you will require a DBS check.

The BTP are the British Transport Police, they will investigate crime at the request of TFL when dealing with employees and their dependants.

Finally, just await for communication from TFL It may well be your mother who hears first but until that time arrives just sit tight there is nothing you can do to expedite the situation currently.

Please keep us updated with any news.

Hope this helps

 

[Tetchytyke]

Your actions have probably cost your mum her pass, unless she says you took it without permission. And if she says that, it's really going to be a Regulation of Railways Act (RoRA) prosecution. Convictions under that act are shown on DBS checks.

Theft doesn't really apply here, but fraud can (although probably won't) if you knowingly used something you weren't entitled to with the intention of depriving TfL of revenue.

Many professional bodies will treat RoRA offences as a dishonesty conviction, too. Chartered Accountancy firms will. They probably won't find you unfit for practice, but it won't be a pleasant meeting. There won't be biscuits.

Your story is also wildly inconsistent. Why did you have your mother's pass on you if you weren't intending to use it? You'd better hope there isn't a regular pattern of usage on the card, as TfL will check it. I don't think we can file this as "accident", so please don't insult our intelligence by attempting to.

As for feeling "stressed and anxious", so what? Actions have consequences.

 

[30907]

Couple of things here that I don't fully understand - largely because, although I have an Oyster card, I just use it to tap in and out on single journeys. You say you were "intending to do a monthly travel card" on your oyster. Was there any reason you couldn't just have tapped in and out for a single journey? You refer to normally using "either monthly or single fares". So was there a reason for not using a single fare that day?

The OP has explained that they didn't have their own Oyster "in their work bag."

 

[Tetchytyke]

The OP has explained that they didn't have their own Oyster "in their work bag."

Though naturally has not explained how they came to have their mother 's pass in it. The OP may wish to consider if they have a plausible explanation.

 

[25797]

In response to 6GMAN.

Hi, I already explained but i understand it’s hard to get it when it’s written out.

I had no money on a normal oyster on that day, and I would have to go to a counter which was the main thing I was trying to avoid. My 18+ Oyster card was not in my work bag! I travel zone 2 to 1 it’s cheaper for me to do single fare on normal oyster however with 18+ monthly travel it’s discounted so I decided to make that for October. It was the beginning of the week, was running late just had no time. As I’m still entitled to my 18+ I decided I might aswell make a monthly for October which works out cheaper for me than single fares because it’s discounted for students. Prior to this I was just paying single fares on either contactless or normal oyster. (I only started my grad role in sept, not used to figuring out travel expenses etc so I was waiting till beginning of month to make a travel card ). The card expires on 31st of October so for me to even make a travel card for this month it’d have to have been on 1st of October because it won’t let me do it any time after that as the period goes over 30 days and that passes the expiry date. Bare in mind with student oysters we have log ins so we can top up online so I intended to do it later on the day when I had time. I obviously shouldn’t of used my mums oyster but I guess my thought process was I’m going to have to create a travel card from the 1st (the day it happened) so in a sense I’m basically over paying if I use my contactless because I won’t even get to use my 18+ until the next day.

does this explain better?

 

[25797]

OH WOW.

I never once said it was an accident. I clearly stated I used my mother’s pass. If an 18+ Oyster card runs out on the 31st of October a monthly travel card will have to be made on the 1st of the month. The 1st of the month is the day the incident took place. I clearly explained when I started this thread that I only used it that day because I was running late and I didn’t have my oyster in my work bag. I wouldn’t be “depriving TFL of revenue” because when I would of made a travel card that day with my 18+ online account that fare would be coming out of my pocket anyway. I’ve clearly said I should of just used my contactless even if that meant double paying for the day but that wasn’t my thought process in the morning before work

Nobody is trolling.

Your actions have probably cost your mum her pass, unless she says you took it without permission. And if she says that, it's really going to be a Regulation of Railways Act (RoRA) prosecution. Convictions under that act are shown on DBS checks.

Theft doesn't really apply here, but fraud can (although probably won't) if you knowingly used something you weren't entitled to with the intention of depriving TfL of revenue.

Many professional bodies will treat RoRA offences as a dishonesty conviction, too. Chartered Accountancy firms will. They probably won't find you unfit for practice, but it won't be a pleasant meeting. There won't be biscuits.

Your story is also wildly inconsistent. Why did you have your mother's pass on you if you weren't intending to use it? You'd better hope there isn't a regular pattern of usage on the card, as TfL will check it. I don't think we can file this as "accident", so please don't insult our intelligence by attempting to.

As for feeling "stressed and anxious", so what? Actions have consequences.

 

[farleigh]

Hey TasF - stick with the forum.

You will work this out and there will be people on here with great expertise who come to offer useful advice.

FWIW I think you have explained the situation clearly and I hope that you get through this with a positive outcome.

 

[25797]

Also it’s a one off which they can clearly see if they pull up the travel history...

I would also suggest you explain why you remembered your mum's card but forgot your own. I'm guessing this isn't a one off?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I had no time to rummage though my room for my own and also no time to stand in the queue to top up.

But how can you top up if you forgot your Oyster? You also said you "didn't want to pay twice"; this applies as much to Oyster PAYG as contactless.

I'm asking you these questions so you can think about your responses. TfL will want to know the same things. If it is a systematic abuse of a staff facility then things will be a whole lot worse for both you and your mum.

You will need to assess how sorry you are, as this will affect any settlement you can make with TfL. Right now, you simply appear to be sorry you got caught.