Poor condition of Bakerloo line stock

[mrmartin]

Went on the bakerloo for the first time in many years today. The rolling stock is in absolutely terrible condition - carriage was tagged everywhere inside plus every glass surface was etched with tags.

Starting to look like a 1970s new York Subway carriage. What's happened here?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

They're old and go through some undesirable parts of North London.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Managed decline.

 

[bramling]

Managed decline.

Decline for sure, though I’m less sure about the managed part. TFL still seem to find money for certain things, for example tinkering with the staff uniform once again.

Every element of LU is a shambles now. There are issues with numerous train fleets, staffing is a mess more or less across the board, and the stations side has never really recovered from the disaster that was Fit For The Future - Stations. The worst thing is there doesn’t seem to be any plan for how to address any of this, instead the ship just blows with the wind.

 

[sh24]

It's got notably worse in the last few months, especially external graffiti and internal tagging/window scratching. I wonder if the broken window syndrome is kicking in.

 

[mrmartin]

They're old and go through some undesirable parts of North London.

Yeah but they've always been old and went through those areas. They've never looked as totally trashed as they do now. It looks like the tags internally have been there for some time as there are multiple by different people. Do they not get cleaned each night anymore?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

they've always been old

Utterly pedantic, but they weren't old in the 1970s...

 

[GFE]

Tfl are trying to get money to replace these trains, unfortunately it seems letting them look "sad for themselves" is necessary to help the case.

 

[mrmartin]

Yeah just surprised tfl run stock with so much internal tagging in service. There was at least 5 different "tags" in both carriages I was in. You'd think they'd clean that up overnight?

 

[sh24]

Yeah just surprised tfl run stock with so much internal tagging in service. There was at least 5 different "tags" in both carriages I was in. You'd think they'd clean that up overnight?

I've been on 3 different sets today, and as you say each have multiple vintages of tags on the inside. A new development is marker pen tagging on exteriors too.

 

[Cambrian359]

Used the tube back in September for the first time since before the pandemic and was quite surprised at the level of graffiti on all lines I used but the Bakerloo line was at a whole another level to the point I didn’t actually feel safe as it just reminded me of old American films where the subways are crime and graffiti ridden.
It felt like the whole tube was in decline compared to the many times I’d used it in the 10+ years up to the pandemic. Quite sad really.

 

[brad465]

At this rate the London Transport Museum might as well close and instead the Bakerloo Line becomes a live interactive London Transport Museum.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Perhaps we could even manufacture a new generation of wooden escalator for the pure authenticity

 

[Russel]

I noticed this today too, on one Bakerloo train there was even tags on the floor!

On the subject of the 72 stock, when did they loose the round car end internal lights, I noticed they have all been plated over?

 

[announcements]

Yes this was deliberate as there is not enough power for them, now that the LED displays need powering. Plus, the ceiling LED lights should provide adequate illumination.

 

[contrex]

Utterly pedantic, but they weren't old in the 1970s...

Very modern to someone who used to deliberately choose the Standard Stock trailers running with 1938 Stock to ride in as a boy and teenager. The 1927 stock '58 trailers'.

 

[Ladder23]

Just sharing my thoughts. I love the old "New York subway" feel myself, it's a personal vintage gritty charm! I'll miss those trains when they're gone!

 

[Nym]

I noticed this today too, on one Bakerloo train there was even tags on the floor!

On the subject of the 72 stock, when did they loose the round car end internal lights, I noticed they have all been plated over?

Not a requirement of the lighting standards and only ever positioned there in lieu of end windows that were not possible to fit during refurbishment. (The one in Scotland, not what TfL calls a "Refurbishment" now.) Hence when LED Lighting comes along, the additional cost and complexity of including the portal lights, not included.

 

[Russel]

Not a requirement of the lighting standards and only ever positioned there in lieu of end windows that were not possible to fit during refurbishment. (The one in Scotland, not what TfL calls a "Refurbishment" now.) Hence when LED Lighting comes along, the additional cost and complexity of including the portal lights, not included.

Interesting, why was it not possible to fit car end windows?

I can't think of any other stock that hasn't had them for a long time!

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Interesting, why was it not possible to fit car end windows?

I can't think of any other stock that hasn't had them for a long time!

I think it was the structure of the car ends of the 1967/1972TS, which prohibited erecting end car windows. Anyway at the time, I think some survey work was carried out about how to effectively illuminate the car ends. As prior to referbishment , the car ends we’re notoriously gloomy. Customers liked the porthole lights as they were included purely for the benefit of the customer.

 

[celestial]

For people who don't quite realise how bad this is - took these on Friday. Some of the trains have been in this state for months with the same tags, no cleaning whatsoever. Shocking. Everyone notices it and it's only contributing to a poor and crime ridden view of the city London is developing internationally.

 

[Nym]

Interesting, why was it not possible to fit car end windows?

I can't think of any other stock that hasn't had them for a long time!

Too much stuff in the way structurally and too much to fit into there because there’s no under seat spaces in the bogie seat bays or ceilings unlike newer stocks.

Add to that the LED lighting needed equipment that that space was used for. (At last as designed when I last looked at it)

 

[Mikey C]

For people who don't quite realise how bad this is - took these on Friday. Some of the trains have been in this state for months with the same tags, no cleaning whatsoever. Shocking. Everyone notices it and it's only contributing to a poor and crime ridden view of the city London is developing internationally.

That's awful and completely unacceptable. And the areas which the Bakerloo passes through are no excuse either, as other Underground lines or indeed Southeastern Metro services are nowhere near as bad.

 

[mrmartin]

Yeah I don't understand why there isn't any cleaning being done. The etching is obviously harder to fix but it's not difficult to clean some inked tags up.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

For people who don't quite realise how bad this is - took these on Friday. Some of the trains have been in this state for months with the same tags, no cleaning whatsoever. Shocking. Everyone notices it and it's only contributing to a poor and crime ridden view of the city London is developing internationally.

Unfortunately most examples of Bakerloo 1972TS are also heavily graffitied. After a Lengthy to Harrow & Wealdstone and back again, the stations north of Queens Park look pretty desperate, and I saw many loitering youths at certain stations such as Stonebridge Park and Harlesden. I reckon so much money has been spent on the LED light fitment and general upkeep of the aged stock, that probably graffiti removal has been the least of concern, as long as the train moves and operates to standard, that is the most important!

 

[Thirteen]

For people who don't quite realise how bad this is - took these on Friday. Some of the trains have been in this state for months with the same tags, no cleaning whatsoever. Shocking. Everyone notices it and it's only contributing to a poor and crime ridden view of the city London is developing internationally.

I don't that's true in the slightest unless you only read the right wing rags who hate Sadiq Khan.

 

[Silent]

For people who don't quite realise how bad this is - took these on Friday. Some of the trains have been in this state for months with the same tags, no cleaning whatsoever. Shocking. Everyone notices it and it's only contributing to a poor and crime ridden view of the city London is developing internationally.

Reminds me of pictures I see of mta ny subway

 

[Russel]

I don't that's true in the slightest unless you only read the right wing rags who hate Sadiq Khan.

Sadly, London is developing a reputation for crime, it's not surprising though, given how many of our media outlets seem to lean to the right.

For what it's worth, I feel perfectly safe in Central London and the Bakerloo, despite the graffiti.

 

[Chriso]

It was quite interesting watching a well known British you tuber boarding a high speed train in China telling a local he was from London and the Chinese guy responding with a stabbing motion just shouting dangerous.

People in the UK have no idea how internationally London and the countries status has fallen. This will hit tourism hard in time which London is reliant

The UK is in rapid decline from all angles and unfortunately the state of the 72 stock is the least of our probs.
It’s pretty straight forward to rectify more Police stiffer sentences as always yet the idiots in charge seem to want to follow the disastrous US liberal system which is a disaster

 

[Russel]

It was quite interesting watching a well known British you tuber boarding a high speed train in China telling a local he was from London and the Chinese guy responding with a stabbing motion just shouting dangerous.

People in the UK have no idea how internationally London and the countries status has fallen. This will hit tourism hard in time which London is reliant

The UK is in rapid decline from all angles and unfortunately the state of the 72 stock is the least of our probs.
It’s pretty straight forward to rectify more Police stiffer sentences as always yet the idiots in charge seem to want to follow the disastrous US liberal system which is a disaster

Far too many people in the UK, well, mostly England, are so wrapped up in nationalism that they can't see that England is a shadow of it's former self.

It's embarrassing.