Poor platform allocation of Crewe & Chester trains at Piccadilly

[Big Jumby 74]

It's maddening for those who actually want to run a proper railway

I have no idea who does the platform planning in your neck of the woods (NR of TOC?) but TOC planners on my old patch had (I can't comment on the present day) a very good relationship with our largest ASC, Wimbledon, in relation to Waterloo mostly, but they had a few things they would have preferred to do 'their' way, which from a planning side couldn't be agreed to. Nothing drastic, but as touched on previously it was a case of potential junction margins conflicts at locations X & Y sort of thing. There will of course always be compromises to be had, that was all part of it.

 

[The Planner]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have the planners, LTP & STP, taken the time to meet with the signallers to discuss each sides issues? Can be good to talk, as the saying goes ! There will always be a small number of moves that a bobby will prefer to make this way or that way (outside of the base plan), but there might also be good reasons (Junction margins somewhere further down the route?) that prevent the planners putting such a move in the plan due to NR's legal margins that planners have to adhere to.

Not something that ever happens, in my experience. Very much deemed different disciplines, each in their own separate world.

It's maddening for those who actually want to run a proper railway.

Depends on the station - some planners I know have very close working relations with the signallers on their patch.

Depends on the region, lost count of the signal boxes I have visited over the years, some want to engage, some are not interested and its always your fault. This being a case in point, the amount of platforming issues you can overcome with a decent chat is proven, just take biscuits.

 

[zwk500]

Depends on the region, lost count of the signal boxes I have visited over the years, some want to engage, some are not interested and its always your fault. This being a case in point, the amount of platforming issues you can overcome with a decent chat is proven, just take bibiscuits.

Can also vary between shifts at the same box, in my experience.
My training cohort had a visit to a box split between weeks for numbers, my group had an SSM on earlys who couldn't have been more helpful, the group who'd gone the week before said the SSM that they'd had said if it was up to him he'd have refused the visit.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Depends on the region

Can also vary between shifts at the same box

Agreed on both counts. Found liaising/working with the signaller who prepared the simplifiers proved worthwhile (I hope!) for the detail, so differing opinions could be discussed away from the coal face meeting, and any conflicts resolved accordingly. Having worked on both sides of the coin, know there can be unease between some on both sides, but was always afforded tea and biscuits.

 

[Watershed]

Depends on the region, lost count of the signal boxes I have visited over the years, some want to engage, some are not interested and its always your fault. This being a case in point, the amount of platforming issues you can overcome with a decent chat is proven, just take biscuits.

Unfortunately never something I had the chance to do, even though Piccadilly was on my patch. It was hard even getting a cab ride! Personally I think there ought to be a standardised training programme across the industry, which involves visits to different frontline locations to get an idea of how the railway actually works - like what used to happen in BR days. Sadly the chances of that, even with GBR, seem minimal.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I think there ought to be a standardised training programme across the industry, which involves visits to different frontline locations to get an idea of how the railway actually works - like what used to happen in BR days.

The old BR induction course was a good starting point, and was for my purpose, for a signalling career. Don't know if the contents of such courses varied depending on intended career paths, but it gave those who attended the one I did a very sound grounding in operational matters, rule book, other documents expected to be used, a wired up section of a signal box frame in the classroom as I recall, then we went outside to the depot alongside the class rooms, and each individual got to open a hook switch and undertake other electrified line procedures. It helped our 'teacher' was an old hand off the GE, who now and again would reminisce about his early days with Britannia's on the Norwich road, which would always keep us keen (and awake, ). Sorry, veering OT now !

 

[northwichcat]

I have noticed at Piccadilly the automated annoucements normally kick in 10 minutes before a train's scheduled departure (except on platforms 13 and 14). However, the Chester service does not get an annoucement while the train for the Crewe service is in front of it, not even travel in the rear train only annoucement.

 

[ayubdaud]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have the planners, LTP & STP, taken the time to meet with the signallers to discuss each sides issues? Can be good to talk, as the saying goes ! There will always be a small number of moves that a bobby will prefer to make this way or that way (outside of the base plan), but there might also be good reasons (Junction margins somewhere further down the route?) that prevent the planners putting such a move in the plan due to NR's legal margins that planners have to adhere to.

The existing base platforming for Piccadilly for Dec 22 was 95% done as part of the MRTF group. Don't necessarily recall them linking in with MPSCC for their thoughts to be honest. LTP/STP would have then had to pick up the base from there. As others have said though it depends on the station and specific signallers, and if you ask the right questions.

 

[323235]

Going back to that spare unit on platform 12 - I was told by a friend that his training group used that unit on their traction training course, so it does have an alternative use.

Could the loco siding at Piccadilly be used to hold a train between duties to free up a platform?

I’ve never seen it used in all the years I’ve been travelling in Piccadilly. Not sure how long it is?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Could the loco siding at Piccadilly be used to hold a train between duties to free up a platform?

If I'm thinking about the road you mean, in today's world stabling in there would never be agreed to, unless it was only for a very short period when the driver stayed with the train, essentially a shunt move to clear a platform temporarily, and could change ends without having to decamp. It's right in the middle of other running lines, and doubt there is any agreed walking route to/from the station platforms as this would mean crossing other roads. As you say, sometimes 'training' is undertaken in units that lay over for a few hours as well.
Somewhere like London's Waterloo is different, whereby there were two (now one) stabling siding just outside the station, but they (it) are away to one side of the running lines, with a walking route that is via the streets below, so far more user friendly for both stabling (and if needs be, limited training purposes).

BOLD edited: looking at Google street view there is a view from the end of p4/5 looking outwards, and the rails of the points leading in to the loco siding appear to be shiny, so looks like something had been in/out of there, but the image is dated 2018.