Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[LowLevel]

The units are now leaving the GCR having travelled to Quorn under their own power yesterday.

 

[geoffk]

Not the whole story. Liverail shows changes en route and traction type. From looking at a few examples, the Wigan NW to Alderley Edge workings have two changes en route, at Bolton and Manchester Piccadilly. For both the Wigan to Bolton and Piccadilly to Alderley legs, the data is:

No, the Wigan - Stalybridge workings are timed as Sprinters throughout, in both directions.

Six units are required to operate Wigan NW to Stalybridge and Alderley Edge, the routes being interworked at WGN. Realistically, when will six 769s be available for use? If the routes have to be worked independently, that will of course cost a unit.

 

[Greybeard33]

Six units are required to operate Wigan NW to Stalybridge and Alderley Edge, the routes being interworked at WGN. Realistically, when will six 769s be available for use? If the routes have to be worked independently, that will of course cost a unit.

The timings can be adjusted if necessary to enable continued use of 15x's. The 769s can surely be introduced progressively, one diagram at a time, as units and trained crews become available. No need to end the interworking.

If the interworking were as simple as you suggest, only five diagrams would be needed. The circuit Alderley Edge - Wigan NW - Stalybridge - WGN - ALD is less than 6 hours. But the peak workings between ALD and Southport complicate matters. In the morning the stock from some SYB to WGN workings seems to form workings from WGN to Leeds. In the evening, the stock from some ALD to SOP workings seems to form workings from SOP to Blackburn via Todmorden, while some services from BBN terminate at WGN and form workings to SYB.

From RTT, it is unclear to me which of these diagrams might eventually be worked by 769s. In any case, I suspect the Northern random unit generator might get involved!

 

[nat67]

I saw a 319 motor car on an Alleys heavy haulage Lorry on the M40 25/3/19 I believe it was going from Long Marston to Wolverton. Can anyone give me any gen.

Thanks,
Nat

 

[childwallblues]

Six units are required to operate Wigan NW to Stalybridge and Alderley Edge, the routes being interworked at WGN. Realistically, when will six 769s be available for use? If the routes have to be worked independently, that will of course cost a unit.

769431 and 769424 are currently at either end of Allerton Depot. A good view of 431 canbe be got from any service running between LPY and HNX.

 

[modernrail]

769431 and 769424 are currently at either end of Allerton Depot. A good view of 431 canbe be got from any service running between LPY and HNX.

Do we have any more certainty as to when these units can enter service in terms of any further testing required before that can happen?

 

[Bertie the bus]

The latest Railway Herald reports that mainline 769 testing has been officially pushed back to 'towards the end of March'.

Perhaps best believed once it's seen.

I was wondering if it was close enough April to be considered towards the end of March yet. Perhaps, as part of the mods, they have already set the clocks on the units to BST so they’re waiting until tomorrow.

 

[notlob.divad]

Given testing/training on the new units seems to have been halted due to the coupler issues (details on the new stock thread). I would have thought there would be a bit more of a push to get these units moving instead. Everything about these stock introductions seems absolutly baffling surounded by a can't do attitude by the companies and institutions involved. It must be incredibly frustrating for the people who are trying to use these services daily.

 

[Mathew S]

It must be incredibly frustrating for the people who are trying to use these services daily.

It certainly is.

Do we have any more certainty as to when these units can enter service in terms of any further testing required before that can happen?

On which topic, does anyone know how much extra training will be needed for train crew to operate the 769s over and above the 319s? Presumably, a short conversion course?

 

[Mogster]

It must be incredibly frustrating for the people who are trying to use these services daily.

You could say that... But with 25 years of experience my expectations are now very very low

 

[aleggatta]

Given testing/training on the new units seems to have been halted due to the coupler issues (details on the new stock thread). I would have thought there would be a bit more of a push to get these units moving instead. Everything about these stock introductions seems absolutly baffling surounded by a can't do attitude by the companies and institutions involved. It must be incredibly frustrating for the people who are trying to use these services daily.

Please can you provide a link to the appropriate thread/post? Have tried to find but can't seem to locate it! Thanks!

 

[hwl]

Given testing/training on the new units seems to have been halted due to the coupler issues (details on the new stock thread). I would have thought there would be a bit more of a push to get these units moving instead. Everything about these stock introductions seems absolutly baffling surounded by a can't do attitude by the companies and institutions involved. It must be incredibly frustrating for the people who are trying to use these services daily.

The problem is they are focused around:
a) 331
b) 195
c) 170
d) more driver knowledge on existing stock (e.g. 323s)

as they are theoretically a bigger impact than
e) 319 training

hence very difficult to reprogramme all the time with every hitch.

 

[notlob.divad]

Please can you provide a link to the appropriate thread/post? Have tried to find but can't seem to locate it! Thanks!

Certainly, read from this post onwards.

Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates (CAF built new units confirmed)

 

[31160]

Is it the intention whenever they actually go into service to be used on the windermere brach?

 

[AMD]

Is it the intention whenever they actually go into service to be used on the windermere brach?

No, the 195s are planned for Windermere, with 158s being used from the May timetable change until the 195s are ready.

 

[Wtloild]

Have seen a few unrefurbished 319/4s in plain logo-less white livery operating Blackpool-Manchester services in recent weeks.
Are these prospective 769s being pressed into short-term service?

 

[a_c_skinner]

I'd have thought not; there isn't a shortage of 319s that you'd need to borrow from Brush. I had hoped this was good news that a 769 might have ventured onto the main line in some form.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Are these prospective 769s being pressed into shorttersh service?

No they're tempary until the 331's enter service.

 

[js1000]

Have seen a few unrefurbished 319/4s in plain logo-less white livery operating Blackpool-Manchester services in recent weeks.
Are these prospective 769s being pressed into short-term service?

No, they're old Thameslink trains on temporary lease from Porterbrook. That's actually a few of them I believe. There is one which still have first class seats in from old First Capital Connect days as I travelled on it last month to Manchester Airport.

 

[507021]

Have seen a few unrefurbished 319/4s in plain logo-less white livery operating Blackpool-Manchester services in recent weeks.
Are these prospective 769s being pressed into short-term service?

Northern have three white 319s at the moment, 319372/373/446, the latter being the only 319/4.

 

[507021]

No they're tempary until the 331's enter service.

No, the three extra 319s are covering until the 769s are ready.

 

[ed1971]

The saga as to when the Class 769s enter service continues. They will only be a small fleet after all.

Two other alternatives may have been better:-

(a) Have ordered eight extra 3 car Class 195s which would have made the fleet more uniform.

(b) I am aware that Manchester Leeds electrification has been postponed. As an interim, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge and Wigan North Western to Lostock Junction could be electrified eliminating the need for 769s and allowing standard Class 319s, 323s (or whatever other EMUs Northern has to hand) to be used on Wigan North Western to Alderley Edge and Wigan North Western to Stalybridge services.

Option (b) would have seemed the most logical as we are only talking of short distances of electrification to enable full EMU use over the said routes.

 

[Killingworth]

The saga as to when the Class 769s enter service continues. They will only be a small fleet after all.

Two other alternatives may have been better:-

(a) Have ordered eight extra 3 car Class 195s which would have made the fleet more uniform.

(b) I am aware that Manchester Leeds electrification has been postponed. As an interim, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge and Wigan North Western to Lostock Junction could be electrified eliminating the need for 369s and allowing standard Class 319s, 323s (or whatever other EMUs Northern has to hand) to be used on Wigan North Western to Alderley Edge and Wigan North Western to Stalybridge services.

Option (b) would have seemed the most logical as we are only talking of short distances of electrification to enable full EMU use over the said routes.

If the logic of those on forums like this were applied there'd have been a lot of infill electrifications done by now. Leeds - York might be one. I'll stop there as that could become another thread.

 

[a_c_skinner]

The saga as to when the Class 769s enter service continues

Is continues the actual word?

 

[Class455]

I saw a 319 motor car on an Alleys heavy haulage Lorry on the M40 25/3/19 I believe it was going from Long Marston to Wolverton. Can anyone give me any gen.

Thanks,
Nat

Might have been 319217 which is now with LNWR

 

[nat67]

Might have been 319217 which is now with LNWR

Thanks for that.

 

[Cardiff123]

Have the 769s run on the national mainline network under their own power in diesel mode yet?
Wasn't the idea behind these trains when they were ordered in Spring 2017 that they would be a 'quick fix' and cheaper and faster to build than new-build trains?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Wasn't the idea behind these trains when they were ordered in Spring 2017 that they would be a 'quick fix' and cheaper and faster to build than new-build trains?

Apparently the project proved to be a bit more complex than the original spec of ‘strap a diesel engine onto an EMU’ written on a discarded burger wrapper.

 

[Plethora]

According to an informal Northern source (Don Coffey's YouTube channel) the 323s are due to be repainted in Northern livery and receive PRM mods soon. Suggests they are staying for the long haul. Has this been officially confirmed yet? Again suggests 769 work is not going well.

 

[Mathew S]

According to an informal Northern source (Don Coffey's YouTube channel) the 323s are due to be repainted in Northern livery and receive PRM mods soon. Suggests they are staying for the long haul. Has this been officially confirmed yet? Again suggests 769 work is not going well.

It's nothing to do with the 769s though is it, since by definition they're for different routes. Nor having 769s would place added strain on the diesel fleet, not the electric. More DMUs would be needed, not 323s.