Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[Efini92]

Are you a Liverpool driver?

Ha ha no, they are actually the worst for holding notches for as long as they can.
I remember hearing a conversation between two Lime St drivers saying they don’t put it into weakfield until 65mph

 

[Bikeman78]

Northern have a ridiculous policy of only opening up the power in stages. When they were at Thameslink they were driven properly (Straight into notch 2 then once the train starts moving, into 4).

The power in notch 1 is extremely low but Northern drivers seem to use it until about 15mph.

I thought as much. Fat lot of use that would be on the up fast out of Gatwick!

 

[bengley]

Ha ha no, they are actually the worst for holding notches for as long as they can.
I remember hearing a conversation between two Lime St drivers saying they don’t put it into weakfield until 65mph

I suspect that's down to their local management clamping down on them being seen as the tearabout depot.

I thought as much. Fat lot of use that would be on the up fast out of Gatwick!

Indeed. Although they are undoubtedly slow compared to modern EMUs (100 was generally achieved around Radlett on a fast from West Hampstead, whereas on a 700, 100 would be seen before Hendon) they are faster than Northerns BR era diesels.

 

[Efini92]

I suspect that's down to their local management clamping down on them being seen as the tearabout depot.


Indeed. Although they are undoubtedly slow compared to modern EMUs (100 was generally achieved around Radlett on a fast from West Hampstead, whereas on a 700, 100 would be seen before Hendon) they are faster than Northerns BR era diesels.

It was down to the people who put the training course together. They were given two years to put it together and all they did was plagiarise the First Capital Connect manual but take all the useful stuff out.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Unless my eyes deceived me, I saw a double 319/769 at Wigan North Western at 11:50 this morning. I didn't think much of the front but the rear unit didn't have its pantograph up and was 434 which I now know to be 769434.

Now I'm in work with access to trust, I can't see unit numbers to confirm, but I can say that the sets I saw were working 5Q30 10:46 Allerton TMD to Blackpool North and return as 5Q36 14:15 Blackpool North to Allerton TMD.

Not sure what Trust page you are using but trying putting UA into the top left hand corner of the page to give unit allocations. Apologies in advance if you already know that.

 

[Geeves]

Looks like some more 769 testing has been going on this morning.

Realtime Trains - 3Z01 2335 Allerton Depot to Prescot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[ls2270]

Not sure what Trust page you are using but trying putting UA into the top left hand corner of the page to give unit allocations. Apologies in advance if you already know that.

You won’t find unit numbers for most multiple unit moves by Rail Operations Group on TRUST as they are unable to consist them on their system.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looks like some more 769 testing has been going on this morning.

Realtime Trains - 3Z01 2335 Allerton Depot to Prescot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That's encouraging.

 

[Bob Price]

Just seen 5Z53 on the webcam past Leyland. Difficult to see if it was a 769 or 319. Blackpool North to Springs Branch.

Been told it was 769450

 

[Geeves]

769448 out on test this evening. Due off Blackpool N back to Liverpool at 2110

 

[Jamesrob637]

Twitter is starting to see complaints about booked 2-car workings.

It's in Northern's best interest to get a couple of these in traffic in the New Year.

 

[warwickshire]

Twitter is starting to see complaints about booked 2-car workings.

It's in Northern's best interest to get a couple of these in traffic in the New Year.

Agree. Maybe till end off December what was wrong not wrong with Northern keeping the best off the Pacers. That had at least a little more and some wheelset life left. Unless they was meant to go end of November anyway. And not December timetable change. To allow any possible chance off 769 takeover.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Agree. Maybe till end off December what was wrong not wrong with Northern keeping the best off the Pacers. That had at least a little more and some wheelset life left. Unless they was meant to go end of November anyway. And not December timetable change. To allow any possible chance off 769 takeover.

They actually outlawed eleven months ago - 0001 on 01/01/2020 but DfT botched the PRM plan.

 

[Sprinter153]

It looks like there’s a 769 (or a very shiny 319) in Nemesis Rail’s yard in Burton-on-Trent, does anyone have any idea which one it is please?

 

[Bob Price]

What colour? If it's Brunswick green it will be a GWR one. I think Northern have all theirs as do TfW. The only other one it may be is one of the ROG ones.

 

[JonathanH]

It looks like there’s a 769 (or a very shiny 319) in Nemesis Rail’s yard in Burton-on-Trent, does anyone have any idea which one it is please?

769930 - reported to have moved on Thursday from Loughborough.

 

[317 forever]

If anything it is a surprise that the final Pacers have been withdrawn before any 769s have entered service.

 

[Gricer99]

They have informed rail user groups that they now hope to introduce the 769s in service from Southport to Alderley Edge in the first quarter of next year. It's all a bit vague but is clearly subject to being able to prove the reliability of the sets and to train sufficient members of staff.

What happened to this plan? All I see in Hindley is 150s and the occasional 150/156 combination on that service yet Realtime Trains claims claims it is pathed for a 310 between Bolton and Alderney Edge. I assume it is the diesel throughout.

 

[AMD]

What happened to this plan? All I see in Hindley is 150s and the occasional 150/156 combination on that service yet Realtime Trains claims claims it is pathed for a 310 between Bolton and Alderney Edge. I assume it is the diesel throughout.

Still planned for first quarter of 2021, driver training has restarted after it was stopped because of Covid.

 

[Elecman]

Still planned for first quarter of 2021, driver training has restarted after it was stopped because of Covid.

Assuming they fit some form of cab aircon, or buy Aslefs objections out

 

[AM9]

What happened to this plan? All I see in Hindley is 150s and the occasional 150/156 combination on that service yet Realtime Trains claims claims it is pathed for a 310 between Bolton and Alderney Edge. I assume it is the diesel throughout.

A 310?

 

[DustyBin]

A 310?

If only! Typo I think....

 

[AM9]

If only! Typo I think....

I guessed that but it isn't clear what was intended.

 

[anthony263]

What colour? If it's Brunswick green it will be a GWR one. I think Northern have all theirs as do TfW. The only other one it may be is one of the ROG ones.

Tfw are still waiting for the 9th unit to be delivered

 

[Gricer99]

I guessed that but it isn't clear what was intended.

Sorry meant 319.
Example here

 

[AM9]

Sorry meant 319.
Example here

Thanks for the update. Also I's been a while since I looked at RTT and the additional info shown is very interesting, i.e details of stock used (even down to the actual unit numbers).
On the subject of the advertised service (ALD-SOP), it shows timings for the 319 as a 100mph unit as far as Piccadilly. If they are currently running class 150s, is that route so slow that the lower 75mph maximum speed of the 150s is not an issue for the paths involved? A 769 is reported to be capable of 90+mph under the wires so if asked to do that I imagine that it is viable as a diagram.

 

[_toommm_]

Thanks for the update. Also I's been a while since I looked at RTT and the additional info shown is very interesting, i.e details of stock used (even down to the actual unit numbers).
On the subject of the advertised service (ALD-SOP), it shows timings for the 319 as a 100mph unit as far as Piccadilly. If they are currently running class 150s, is that route so slow that the lower 75mph maximum speed of the 150s is not an issue for the paths involved? A 769 is reported to be capable of 90+mph under the wires so if asked to do that I imagine that it is viable as a diagram.

Northern has a driving policy of taking the 319s through the power notches in order, so they’re very slow to accelerate vs. how they used to be on Thameslink - you’ll often find them being used in ‘Shunt’ up to 10 or 15mph. A 150 can probably easily match a 319 on electric.

 

[craigybagel]

Thanks for the update. Also I's been a while since I looked at RTT and the additional info shown is very interesting, i.e details of stock used (even down to the actual unit numbers).
On the subject of the advertised service (ALD-SOP), it shows timings for the 319 as a 100mph unit as far as Piccadilly. If they are currently running class 150s, is that route so slow that the lower 75mph maximum speed of the 150s is not an issue for the paths involved? A 769 is reported to be capable of 90+mph under the wires so if asked to do that I imagine that it is viable as a diagram.

The station stops are so close together that even a 319 on electricity would struggle to get near 75mph - and even if the units performance was much better, it would only be South of Cheadle Hulme you'd notice any difference anyway as North of there the line speed on the slow lines doesn't exceed 75mph anyway.

 

[Bikeman78]

Northern has a driving policy of taking the 319s through the power notches in order, so they’re very slow to accelerate vs. how they used to be on Thameslink - you’ll often find them being used in ‘Shunt’ up to 10 or 15mph. A 150 can probably easily match a 319 on electric.

Which is nuts. Last week I went on numerous 317s which are very similar to 319s/769s on electric. Full power out of Tottenham Hale, 65 mph passing Northumberland Park and 75 passing Meridian Water, despite a neutral section. There is absolutely no way a 150 would achieve that.

 

[AM9]

Which is nuts. Last week I went on numerous 317s which are very similar to 319s/769s on electric. Full power out of Tottenham Hale, 65 mph passing Northumberland Park and 75 passing Meridian Water, despite a neutral section. There is absolutely no way a 150 would achieve that.

I would agree, - the difference is even more outstanding when you consider that the 319s have a power to weight ratio of around 7.1kW/tonne whereas the 317s only have 5.4kW/tonne. Even a 769 on 25kV will be about 6.3kW/tonne! Does anybody know the reasoning behind Northerns' rules for trains to pussyfoot around (obviously excepting when railhead conditions dictate)? They were designed to work hard - and could still right up to when they were removed from Thameslink service.