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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

pemma

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But Bolton - Wigan and Man Vic - Stalybridge are still intended to be wired in due course(?) Is there any prospect of 769s being adapted to meet Northern Connect standards? Adding Air-Con would be the most difficult part, changing the seat configuration, adding first class etc. not so difficult.

There is no guarantee the 769s will remain with Northern if and when the missing electrics get done. Reportedly Northern are looking at the option of using them on Southport services long term but it's dependent on DfT approval.

GWR are getting some 769s which will have an air cooling system fitted but that's less effective and will use a lot less power than a full air conditioning system.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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But Bolton - Wigan and Man Vic - Stalybridge are still intended to be wired in due course(?) Is there any prospect of 769s being adapted to meet Northern Connect standards? Adding Air-Con would be the most difficult part, changing the seat configuration, adding first class etc. not so difficult.
The 319 to 769 upgrade for GWR (North Downs line) does include "air cooling", so it can be done.
I'm not sure there's any certainty of more NW wires, at least until 769s have proved their worth (or otherwise).
 

geoffk

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There is no guarantee the 769s will remain with Northern if and when the missing electrics get done. Reportedly Northern are looking at the option of using them on Southport services long term but it's dependent on DfT approval.

But all the Southports will (from 20th May) run via Atherton and on to the Calder Valley line. The only electrified part is Salford Crescent to Victoria. We are told Southport - Leeds will be 170s.
 

pemma

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But all the Southports will (from 20th May) run via Atherton and on to the Calder Valley line. The only electrified part is Salford Crescent to Victoria. We are told Southport - Leeds will be 170s.

Most Southport services will run via Atherton because the expectation was Wigan-Bolton-Manchester would be wired and Northern wouldn't have bi-modes. They'll still be a few Southport-Bolton-Piccadilly services per day in both directions because there were complaints about commuters being disadvantaged by not having a Piccadilly service. Although, I notice now the RUG is complaining because the evening peak departures from Victoria for Southport will be 16:55 and 17:55 and they want one in-between those times - so they complain about services being diverted to Victoria and then complain when some services aren't diverted to Victoria!
 

mwmbwls

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Most Southport services will run via Atherton because the expectation was Wigan-Bolton-Manchester would be wired and Northern wouldn't have bi-modes. They'll still be a few Southport-Bolton-Piccadilly services per day in both directions because there were complaints about commuters being disadvantaged by not having a Piccadilly service. Although, I notice now the RUG is complaining because the evening peak departures from Victoria for Southport will be 16:55 and 17:55 and they want one in-between those times - so they complain about services being diverted to Victoria and then complain when some services aren't diverted to Victoria!

The existing service left Victoria fifteen minutes later and fitted in well with passengers who finished work at about five. Not everybody can throw downs their pens, (if indeed these are still used these days) and stomp off to the station. Many people work in synchronised work environments - shops, universities etc. Many passengers also have destination end obligations - collecting children for nurseries, etc. - connecting buses. In these austere times, the bus network out of town tends to close down earlier that in the inner city so if you miss the last one ( insert expletive of choice here) . People build their lives around their journey to work, pay good money for their journey to work and not unnaturally get angry when changes are imposed on them. I suspect come timetable change day there will be a maelstrom of discontent expresses about not only Southport services but many others for exactly the same reasons.
 

Mathew S

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The existing service left Victoria fifteen minutes later and fitted in well with passengers who finished work at about five. Not everybody can throw downs their pens, (if indeed these are still used these days) and stomp off to the station. Many people work in synchronised work environments - shops, universities etc. Many passengers also have destination end obligations - collecting children for nurseries, etc. - connecting buses. In these austere times, the bus network out of town tends to close down earlier that in the inner city so if you miss the last one ( insert expletive of choice here) . People build their lives around their journey to work, pay good money for their journey to work and not unnaturally get angry when changes are imposed on them. I suspect come timetable change day there will be a maelstrom of discontent expresses about not only Southport services but many others for exactly the same reasons.
Frankly, tough.
People have known for two years, since the new franchise came in, that there would be changes. They have been, and continue to be, publicised effectively on the Northern website, through posters on stations, on social media, and in the local press. Large city centre employers (and many small ones) have been and are being sent specific communications, and TfGM offer a contact centre to advise customers and business alike on travel options.

Some people will lose out in some ways (me, for example, as my morning train is now either 35 minutes earlier or 30 mins later). However for almost everyone the net benefit when all of the changes are in place will be overwhelmingly positive.

People can whinge all they want but quite frankly I don't think it's justified.
 

pemma

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The existing service left Victoria fifteen minutes later and fitted in well with passengers who finished work at about five. Not everybody can throw downs their pens, (if indeed these are still used these days) and stomp off to the station. Many people work in synchronised work environments - shops, universities etc. Many passengers also have destination end obligations - collecting children for nurseries, etc. - connecting buses. In these austere times, the bus network out of town tends to close down earlier that in the inner city so if you miss the last one ( insert expletive of choice here) . People build their lives around their journey to work, pay good money for their journey to work and not unnaturally get angry when changes are imposed on them. I suspect come timetable change day there will be a maelstrom of discontent expresses about not only Southport services but many others for exactly the same reasons.

I doubt many of the people on the existing 17:09 departure actually finish work at 5pm. One large workplace close to Victoria is the Co-op building. Even to get from there to Victoria you've got to get out of the building (you might work on the 5th floor), cross some busy roads (which involve waiting for traffic lights to change), get in to the station, walk across the concourse, go through a set of ticket barriers and board a train, where the guard might close the doors at 8 minutes past if the train is on time. If it was imperative you were on that 17:09 departure you'd be asking to finish before 5pm to ensure you get it, otherwise the risk of missing it would be too high.

Even ignoring those who work flexitime finishing at 5pm isn't as common as it used to be. What about those who finish at 4pm or 4.30pm? (They are the ones more likely to be on a 17:09 departure, than those with a strict 5pm finishing time!)
 

northernchris

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Even ignoring those who work flexitime finishing at 5pm isn't as common as it used to be. What about those who finish at 4pm or 4.30pm? (They are the ones more likely to be on a 17:09 departure, than those with a strict 5pm finishing time!)

Very true, I usually finish at 5 however one day a week finish at 4.30 and it's just as busy leaving the building at 4.30. It makes sense to stagger finishing times so as to spread out the peak.
 

TheWalrus

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I’m sure I suggested 769s for GWR on here and everyone said they shouldn’t go there? Lol
 

The_Engineer

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I am awaiting an announcement that the first Class 769 is released from Brush, going for tests somewhere, or has achieved some kind of milestone. Is there a news blackout on this project?

We seem to get regular updates from builders/leasing companies/future operators about their super-duper new trains. Brush/Porterbrook/Northern, the silence is deafening!
 

Class455

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Have the 319 FLEX's that are going to Wales been confirmed yet, in case I've missed anything on it?
 

D365

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That is nothing, look what a definite "no" on here did for the 442s.

Wasn’t that because posters were suggesting all kinds of outlandish LHCS ‘solutions’?

The Class 91s are definitely on their way out, open access is looking less and less likely.
 

a_c_skinner

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Hate to say it but there's not really anywhere the 442's can fit on on 3rd rail land anymore.

Wasn’t that because posters were suggesting all kinds of outlandish LHCS ‘solutions’?

No, they were absolutely toast despite numerous suggestions. Anyhow this is off topic and was just a bit of banter.

Edit - but it does show these fora are not that predictive!
 
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jimm

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I’m sure I suggested 769s for GWR on here and everyone said they shouldn’t go there? Lol

And then things happen - such as GWR taking on the operation of Heathrow Express with Class 387s offering a handy way to avoid the need to build a new depot for the 332s and allowing GWR to send more Turbos west into the bargain.

I suspect there is not universal joy in some quarters at GWR about getting 769s after seeng off initial plans for the use of secondhand 319s and 365s and getting shiny new 387s for electric suburban services instead.
 

JN114

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I suspect there is not universal joy in some quarters at GWR about getting 769s after seeng off initial plans for the use of secondhand 319s and 365s and getting shiny new 387s for electric suburban services instead.

There’s been a fair degree of scepticism within some parts of GWR as to their ability to perform (mechanically) on the routes they’ve been proposed for. But they are coming, and that as they say is that!
 

a_c_skinner

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there is not universal joy in some quarters at GWR about getting 769s after seeng off initial plans for the use of secondhand 319s and 365s and getting shiny new 387s for electric suburban services instead

What the passengers want is on time more or less and a seat, or space to stand in comfort. Same as in the NW of England, same as anywhere that might get these vehicles.
 

Bletchleyite

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What the passengers want is on time more or less and a seat, or space to stand in comfort. Same as in the NW of England, same as anywhere that might get these vehicles.

But people are probably within their rights to get miffed when the only reason it's being done in GWR's case is so they can use their shiny new EMUs on Heathrow Express.
 

Domh245

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The main long term reason is the release of Turbos to the Bristol area, they only tie into the HEX situation for a short period of time whilst the 387s get refitted. After all, if they were like for like replacing 387s, they would go for pure 319s rather than 769s.
 

td97

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Hark what is this ATW are not on script with Carwyn about locked toilets.
From http://shrewsburyaberystwythrailway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/MINUTES-SARLC-MAY2018.pdf
Ben is the stakeholder manager for ATW and was seconded to Arriva bid team, the Line liaison commitee meeting was in Welshpool last Friday.
A post from a different forum (above) gave reference to the linked pdf document
An interesting point at the top of page 3 is:
Still waiting for delivery of 769 fleet, one has arrived and 3 delayed.
Is this likely to be misinformation or has a 769 unit actually arrived in Wales?
 

mushroomchow

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Clock keeps ticking and, as it stands, the closest we're going to get to seeing one actually doing anything will be a static exhibit at Rail Live next month.

They were supposed to be running to Windermere in revenue service by now, for Christ's sake. As it stands, we've not even had a glimpse of one running under diesel power.
 

47802

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At this rate you could probably order Stadler Bi-Modes Today and have them in service before these things:lol:
 

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