td97
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter pemma
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Those pictures show a unit renumbered 769000 in Northern livery with 'Flex' branding added, plus a load of 319s with notices on saying 'reserved for Flex.' No proof that 769000 can work off the wires without being hauled by a loco or that any work has actually started on the other units.
I'm not sure that the big 'reserved for Flex' sign on the windscreen is necessarily a positive sign… perhaps someone will be able to tell us if these units have actually been re-tractioned yet, or, if they are still awaiting conversion?
Edit: Presumably 769 000 is the prototype, but, the question is - does it work?
samuelmorris
Established Member
I'm not seeing any differences with '769000' underneath?
Maybe it's just the picture but there does seem to be a distinct lack of Diesel engines or fuel tanks under that driving vehicle - it's a 319 in Northern livery with a new number and some porterbrook stickers as far as I can tell.
The_Engineer
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Basically it appears to be a number of Class 319 units in a siding with one renumbered to 769.000. I have asked Richard if the 769 actually moves, it will be interesting to see what comes back. If they have a working Class 769 then I am sure it will be demonstrated today.....
twpsaesneg
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I'm sure a load of hefty chaps could bar it along and make diesel engine noises....
The numbering looks like it's been slapped on rather quickly… wonder how long it's been wearing that livery for?
td97
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Agreed - there aren't are striking differences on the under body compared to a photo from a similar angle of a 319. It will be interesting to see what they have to say about it whilst they have the representatives on hand
Was from another thread a month or so ago. Someone said the 769s were not riding smoothly thanks to the engines at the front and rear.
That's clearly a guess though as the train hasn't moved under it's own power at Brush (or anywhere else). I don't think that ride quality can be accurately assessed if it is only being shunted around a workshop.
twpsaesneg
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In all seriousness though, if all Porterbrook have to show is the same presentation they showed at the Roundhouse in Derby several months ago and a badly renumbered Class 319 then it must be a serious loss of credibility.
I've a keen interest here since their introduction has been used as a reason for scaling back a significant amount of the OLE in the North West, and one of the key services they are due to take over relies upon their introduction. The concept appears sound and there has been significant progress in builds (or some skilful photoshopping by Porterbrook in their presentation) but there must be a fairly major issue with something to miss all of the dates mooted for testing so far and the big reveal at Rail Live.
It's worrying. If only Porterbrook were as converting these trains for service as they are marketing them. Even then, they are just 319s in Northern livery.
mushroomchow
Member
For what it's worth, and considering it was supposed to have been down there by April, I heard it won't be at the GCR for testing until at least the end of July, and some are sceptical it will even happen at all. It's looking very likely that we'll get to Autumn 2018 with them not having turned a wheel.
This is turning into a bit of a mess, no doubt.
This is turning into a bit of a mess, no doubt.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Time to restart the electrification programme...or have a chat to Messrs Shooter and Stadler?
Time to restart the electrification programme...or have a chat to Messrs Shooter and Stadler?
In the case of Northern might be easier to ask CAF if they can do a DEMU or IPEMU version of the Civity and if they can then add them on to the existing order.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or that. If enough are needed, that could allow for the integrated Lakes and Furness bi-mode fleet I think is sorely needed.
Mikey C
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I'm sure Chris Grayling would be fooled. And impressed by the zero level of diesel particulates being emitted
Not for long. He'd get the DfT to make it DOO!I'm sure Chris Grayling would be fooled. And impressed by the zero level of diesel particulates being emitted
westcoaster
Established Member
Looks like a basic 319 wrapped, telling sign is it still has its DC shoe gear on. Could be for GWR though.
I'd be doubtful seeing as it's been given the Northern livery.
Unless they put the train into a computer modelling / axle load calculations / wind tunnel software that can identify potential flaws. Anyhow, there must be a major flaw/reason why it is taking so long that cannot be eliminated with a simple bodge job.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I saw DC shoe gear but no engine.
All this could be a blessing in disguise. I had a ride today on a 319 from Manchester to Blackpool. They really are awful. No aircon so lots of noise from the open windows. The horrible 3+2 seating that's too low to be comfortable. Noise from underneath-I am assuming a compressor. The PA on the unit wasn't working nor any visual displays. Sticking on some diesel engines is just going to make things worse. When these were built Leyland were still making the Austin Allegro and most people wouldn't touch one today even if the salesman said they'd repainted the outside and re-covered the seats. Best try for a derogation or even keep some 144's without toilets for a couple of years rather than throw money at this old junk
They are horrible units. I can't disagree. Even the simple stuff is wrong such as the seats being too low. Bumpy ride compared to other units such as the 323. Slow acceleration. Strange, irritating noises. 3+2 seating is annoying - the few 319s units Northern have with 2+2 are far more pleasant.
Would much prefer to see them converted/moved elsewhere and the 323s to take their place.
Would much prefer to see them converted/moved elsewhere and the 323s to take their place.
Bornin1980s
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I still say, Nothern did not order enough diesels. Worse, they intend to use all new diesels for new services, instead of direct replacement.
I would say, a new dmu for every pacer (at least), and refuse to accept major timetable expansion until all the required stock is in service.
I don't think that's correct. Most of the Northern Connect services (which are expected to get 195s) are existing services, even if some are two services joined together e.g. Leeds to Lincoln via Sheffield or an existing service with an extension e.g. a Calder Valley service extended to Manchester Airport and Nottingham to Leeds extended to Bradford.
Mikey C
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Hardly, the 319s date from the late 80s, so a similar time period to the 158s and Mk 4 carriages.
Polarbear
Established Member
Off topic, but Austin Allegro production finished in 1982. The first batch of 319's appeared for the re-opening of the link between Blackfriars & Farringdon in 1988.
But no, they're not the best EMU on the planet by any means - and the Austin Allegro was not even close to being a good car!
But no, they're not the best EMU on the planet by any means - and the Austin Allegro was not even close to being a good car!
Indeed. That will be the MK 4 carriages that are being discarded from the ECML and the 158's being discarded by Wales. And both of these are much more pleasant than the 319's