Please decode WGW, MCO and SOP. Thanks
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter northwichcat
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swidnod
Member
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- 25 Mar 2010
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- 437
WGW - Wigan Wallgate
MCO - Manchester Oxford Rd
SOP - Southport
Happy to provide. Took less time than complaining about it!
Swidnod
td97
Established Member
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The stated reason is due to a passenger being taken ill.
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Thank you
nightflyian
Member
Thanks for the update on what happened 431 after got off at Bolton. Much appreciated Swidod decoding the station names. I will use full station names not station codes in future.
Be nice to see 424 again back in service.
Be nice to see 424 again back in service.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
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- 5,655
Was this a 769? It's causing chaos between Preston and Manchester:
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 2W62 1632 Southport to Farnworth | 24/09/2024
Real-time train running information for 2W62 1632 departure from Southport to Farnworth on 24/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
I think it was 156415, since this service ran into the platform at Southport that service started fromWas this a 769? It's causing chaos between Preston and Manchester:
Realtime Trains | 2W62 1632 Southport to Farnworth | 24/09/2024
Real-time train running information for 2W62 1632 departure from Southport to Farnworth on 24/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Realtime Trains | 2W18 1427 Manchester Oxford Road to Southport | 24/09/2024
Real-time train running information for 2W18 1427 departure from Manchester Oxford Road to Southport on 24/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
diligentdave
Member
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- 20 Oct 2007
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- 337
Watch this space.
All the GWR allocated were converted to 769s. There are no longer any on GWR books, all were returned to store at Long Marston. There have been a couple moved to Scotland (Kilmarnock??) for some purpose but most of the now ex GWR fleet are still at LM.
Nym
Established Member
Two were moved to Wabtec Doncaster as well
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Are the TfW 769s still in use ?.
I know they seemed to be restricted to diesel only but I thought they were now all out of use.
I know they seemed to be restricted to diesel only but I thought they were now all out of use.
The TfW 769s had their pantographs removed to save weight, because the routes they ran did not pass under wires at any point (the valley line platforms at Cardiff Central being unelectrified) but were withdrawn early I think in 2023 due to very poor reliability.
The only 769s in use are with Northern and have only ever run between Southport - Stalybridge and Manchester Oxford Road. They are now the sole user of the new overhead wires to Stalybridge dependent on crew training.
They once ran to Alderley Edge as well.
The southside no longer sign them at all, mostly to contain the breakdowns to just the northern half of the Manchester Network.
Here's the state of play at Northern plus the date they arrived back at Allerton. I thought I had not seen many at Vic recently!
424 - Allerton - 04/10
431 - Allerton - 15/10
434 - Newton Heath - 18/10
442 - Out / Back at Allerton
448 - Allerton - 19/10
450 - Allerton - 09/10
456 - Out
458 - Allerton - 19/10
As others have said all the Welsh ones and the majority of the GWR ones are stored together at Long Marston.
Here's the state of play at Northern plus the date they arrived back at Allerton. I thought I had not seen many at Vic recently!
424 - Allerton - 04/10
431 - Allerton - 15/10
434 - Newton Heath - 18/10
442 - Out / Back at Allerton
448 - Allerton - 19/10
450 - Allerton - 09/10
456 - Out
458 - Allerton - 19/10
As others have said all the Welsh ones and the majority of the GWR ones are stored together at Long Marston.
Killingworth
Established Member
Presumably their absence from service knocks on across all other fleets with short forms and cancellations - currently compounded by a lack of available crews.
To be fair not many people sign 769s so while it leads to short forms its probably easier for control and the depots to manage because everyone signs the replacements! In a convoluted way the train is actually MORE likely to run
Killingworth
Established Member
Those trains more likely to run, but the units taken to cover them may cause short forms elsewhere.
Availability of the 769's seems to have periods where there are 5/6 out, then drops to 2/3. On the Southport-Man Ox Road/Stalybridge services (which are their main use) tend to get quite a few 4 car substitutions, but of late have noted quite a few short forms, let alone the cancellations side which even midweek is getting worse with plenty 'part-cancellations' because of train crew changes en-route. Throw in that Wigan staff also in the same day walk from NW to Wallgate (and back) to work turns this is hitting Liverpool-Wigan-Blackpools as well (also the regular cancellations of the Wigan-Golborne-Manchester peak trains.
However seems that Porterbrook has faith in them as have seen that they are putting the 8 769's through c6 exams (which would tie up with leases having been apparently extended). From another source seems as if 2 ex-TfW 769's are to be 'fixed' with new transformers and re-fitted pantographs for use by Northern from December to provide cover whilst the 8 are re-jigged (again)...........time will tell as to whether this is accurate or wibble! Don't fancy bi-lingual between Wigan and Bolton, you'd be there before they finish!
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That's probably the first time I've seen the management admit in public that the 769s are unreliable
www.bbc.com
Northern trains boss admits Southport service unacceptable
Train cancellation levels in Merseyside last year were "really chronic", Matt Rice says.
www.bbc.com
TheSel
Member
That's probably the first time I've seen the management admit in public that the 769s are unreliable
Northern trains boss admits Southport service unacceptable
Train cancellation levels in Merseyside last year were "really chronic", Matt Rice says.
And within that story, a quote that probably sums Northern up.
"If it [769 performance] doesn’t improve, we will have to do something about it."
In other words, if performance remains at current levels, we're going to sit back and do nothing.
a_c_skinner
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- 1,624
A real shame as a deal of Northern routes are suited to dual mode operation. Hindsight is easy of course but ordering a lot of pure diesel MUs wasn't ideal.
Halwynd
Member
That's probably the first time I've seen the management admit in public that the 769s are unreliable
Northern trains boss admits Southport service unacceptable
Train cancellation levels in Merseyside last year were "really chronic", Matt Rice says.
Whilst the 769s have their problems, the vast majority of problems I have experienced on the Wigan - Southport line have been 'due to a member of traincrew being unavailable, particularly on Sundays.
769's not diagrammed on a Sunday in any case.
Agree that the majority of the problems on the Southport services are down to staff missing/not available, seems somewhat late to start blaming the 769's for a poor service as the 769's have been very hit and miss since introduction. Today there are 4 out of 6 769 diagrams actually with a 769 working, with the remainder covered by 150/156 combinations. Cancellations are few today, but its down to lack of staff.
Doesn't help with the overly complicated diagramming of (Wigan) staff involving different crews (both drivers and conductors) covering portions of Manchester-Southport/Headbolt Lane whilst also covering Blackpools and Liverpools in the same shift. Recipe for disaster to add into all the other reasons, if there's any disruption anywhere else.
Agree that the majority of the problems on the Southport services are down to staff missing/not available, seems somewhat late to start blaming the 769's for a poor service as the 769's have been very hit and miss since introduction. Today there are 4 out of 6 769 diagrams actually with a 769 working, with the remainder covered by 150/156 combinations. Cancellations are few today, but its down to lack of staff.
Doesn't help with the overly complicated diagramming of (Wigan) staff involving different crews (both drivers and conductors) covering portions of Manchester-Southport/Headbolt Lane whilst also covering Blackpools and Liverpools in the same shift. Recipe for disaster to add into all the other reasons, if there's any disruption anywhere else.
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childwallblues
Established Member
Some of the routes worked by Wigan would seem better worked from other depots.
It seems that 2 ex-TfW have arrived at Brodies of Kilmarnock, with the pantographs probably still in Cardiff, in addition to the 2 ex-GWR examples already there. The 319s that ran with Northern all received new pantographs on transfer and did not use the ones they had run with on Thameslink, but 769s for TfW did not receive these when they had theirs removed.
Porterbrook providing these while the Northern 8 go for “improvements” would be interesting, but ordinarily it would be highly doubtful that they can be ready for the December timetable change. However this is Brodies we’re talking about and they like doing things which are officially impossible.
So Northern which has always defended the 769s, is now blaming the 769s only to defend the staff, when in reality they’re defending people who don’t exist because the issue is there aren’t enough of them employed to run the service.
You hear Wigan crews talking about why they do so much work compared to other depots. Blackburn for example have hardly any, but Wigan, with an increased level of absence itself frequently have to cover for absence at Blackpool or even on Barrow/Skipton routes, but then we can see that Northern always prioritises services east of the WCML at Wigan to run. Southport is always the first to be cancelled.
Under BR, the Southport Diesel services (and especially the first and last ones of the day) were run by Southport depot, until they were stripped of the Diesel routes and traction at privatisation, so it’s just the effect of fragmentation that services which can only be run from one end suffer the most.
Nym
Established Member
Also the two units currently in Doncaster that might have some future use.
Well, the information about the two former TfW 769s being supplied by Porterbrook at no cost to Northern came from two Porterbrook engineering managers in the presence of several Northern managers. That meeting was about a month ago and I have no further updates as to progress. I do know that it was planned that the two sets were expected to be with Northern by sometime in December and that they plan to have 6 sets in traffic each day after their arrival.