Portsmouth Harbour-Cardiff Central GWR

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Here at Cardiff Central you can see the
17:40 Portsmouth Harbour on Platform 1 - Four carriage 158
17:25 Portsmouth Harbour on Platform 2 - Five carriage 158
(and the 17:04 inbound on Platform 3.)

There are nine carriages leaving for Portsmouth within fifteen minutes of each other and the 17:25 is so very, very pleasant on board right now. It really feels like a long distance service. Spacious, not rammed, plenty of tables. It really does go to show how nice the service can be given enough stock.

Three carriage 158s were too busy due to the layout, and five carriage 16x were complained about for feeling like an unsuitable train for a 3.5 hour end to end journey, and there aren’t enough Turbos now anyway so that’s been scrapped, but a consistent five carriage 158 worked service would be fantastic. This is why I do hope GWR get the surplus of stock as discussed in another thread (my hope is 175s) so that 158s can be freed to work this service in that way.

 

[Snow1964]

Network Rail has issued article on work at Portsmouth Harbour Station, near Fareham, Vernon Bridge (Lamport viaduct), and extending signalling lifespan by 50 years.

However they seem to have completely missed the full line closures weekend before and after between Bath and Westbury extending the disruption to 9 days. Very selective PR by Jeff Rose and his team (Network Rail have named him, so fair to repeat the name) in my opinion.

TOMORROW: Vital upgrades to the railway between Portsmouth and Fareham over the February half term

Network Rail is reminding customers to plan ahead and allow plenty of time as buses replace South Western Railway (SWR), Great Western Railway (GWR) and Southern trains between Southampton Central and Havant, Eastleigh and Portsmouth Harbour and Southampton Central and Portsmouth Harbour this...

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[JN114]

The work at Portsmouth Harbour is being done by NR Wessex Route

The work being done between Bath and Westbury is being done by NR Western Route.

They each have their own PR departments. I wouldn’t necessarily expect the comms people from each to be aware of works on other routes.

Also, as much as the Cardiff - Portsmouth route may be the centre of some people’s universe, Engineering work at Bath is of no interest to the vast, vast majority of passengers affected by the works at Portsmouth; who are much more interested in either local routes along the Solent or the line towards London.

 

[swt_passenger]

May be deleted please

 

[Sun Chariot]

TOMORROW: Vital upgrades to the railway between Portsmouth and Fareham over the February half term

Network Rail is reminding customers to plan ahead and allow plenty of time as buses replace South Western Railway (SWR), Great Western Railway (GWR) and Southern trains between Southampton Central and Havant, Eastleigh and Portsmouth Harbour and Southampton Central and Portsmouth Harbour this...

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[Snow1964]

They each have their own PR departments. I wouldn’t necessarily expect the comms people from each to be aware of works on other routes.

Depends as what you define as different routes

You wouldn't normally get it on XC which crosses multiple regions where trains on one service get buses in different locations on consecutive days. Sort of suggests GWR didn't query the lack of coordination, or if they did, just accepted it.

 

[Benjwri]

Depends as what you define as different routes

You wouldn't normally get it on XC which crosses multiple regions where trains on one service get buses in different locations on consecutive days. Sort of suggests GWR didn't query the lack of coordination, or if they did, just accepted it.

GWR publishes a map of every changed train time in a week more than a month in advance, and has had these working in journey planners for months. If someone is relying on Network Rail press releases to know their journey will be altered they’re doing something wrong.

I would assume the press release is geared towards people who rely on a turn up and go service, rather than those who take the GWR service, which is very much not that.

 

[Snow1964]

Network Rail have released a job done video of work at Portsmouth and Fareham

Job done: vital upgrades to the railway between Portsmouth and Fareham completed as railway reopens to customers

Network Rail's engineers have replaced track during the February half term with the railway now reopened to customers

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Not yet job done for Portsmouth-Cardiff as it is now closed Westbury-Bath until 4am Monday

 

[Sun Chariot]

Network Rail have released a job done video of work at Portsmouth and Fareham

Job done: vital upgrades to the railway between Portsmouth and Fareham completed as railway reopens to customers

Network Rail's engineers have replaced track during the February half term with the railway now reopened to customers

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Not yet job done for Portsmouth-Cardiff as it is now closed Westbury-Bath until 4am Monday

Thanks - yes, it's been a hive of activity over the past week.
In the forum's Photos & Videos section, is my photos thread "Loco Hauled around Havant" - post 91 is shots of the work underway at Portsmouth Harbour.

 

[ollie_hunt1660]

Just got on the 16:23 service from Portsmouth to Cardiff, a 2 coach 165 full and standing from Pms, really not good enough for a journey that can last for 3 hours

 

[Snow1964]

Just got on the 16:23 service from Portsmouth to Cardiff, a 2 coach 165 full and standing from Pms, really not good enough for a journey that can last for 3 hours

not good enough is a bit of an understatement

a 32 year old suburban DMU running a service between multiple cities. But sadly not unheard of

Incidently the following train, the 17:23 is also 2car, but a 158

 

[Snow1964]

Looks like GWR lack of rolling stock has reduced a number of Cardiff Portsmouth trains to 2car 158s today again

For such an important regional line (it serves 7 cities), it really is getting dregs of fleet, with every train at least 31 years old.

 

[Dan G]

If GWR gets the Class 175s, which seems likely, it appears the plan is for Cardiff-Portsmouth to become 5-car 175 or 158 on all services.

 

[JonathanH]

If GWR gets the Class 175s, which seems likely, it appears the plan is for Cardiff-Portsmouth to become 5-car 175 or 158 on all services.

All the informed comment is that Cardiff to Portsmouth remains 158 and Turbo operated with 175s doing Cardiff to Penzance, plus Exeter to Barnstaple and Okehampton. However, that would allow more services on the Portsmouth route to be 158s.

 

[vicbury]

If GWR gets the Class 175s, which seems likely, it appears the plan is for Cardiff-Portsmouth to become 5-car 175 or 158 on all services.

Can only hope it is the 175s. Over three hours on a fleet with dysfunctional air conditioning, no thanks!

Whatever happens, the existing situation is an absolute disgrace and it beggars belief that it has been this way for decades.

 

[JonathanH]

Whatever happens, the existing situation is an absolute disgrace and it beggars belief that it has been this way for decades.

Decades? The 158s were new only three decades ago.

 

[vicbury]

Decades? The 158s were new only three decades ago.

Yes, decades. I was commuting between Bath and Southampton over ten years ago and inadequate two and three car 158s were the norm. The route has needed five car trains for decades.

 

[spyinthesky]

Decades? The 158s were new only three decades ago.

I think you answered your own question there.

 

[Snow1964]

Whatever happens, the existing situation is an absolute disgrace and it beggars belief that it has been this way for decades.

It has now got oldest stock it has had for at least 60 years, and maybe decades longer.

I believe the 1963 class 123 DMUs replaced 1930s Southern Railway Bulleid or Mansell coaches. The 123s didn't last that long before migrating to South Wales routes. Mk1 coaches were used for a while hauled by 31s, the class 205 DEMUs had a spell, then it was back to mk1 coaches with 33s, then new class 155s, superceded in early 1990s by 158s.

Now operated by 31-33 year old 158s and displaced suburban DMUs (class 165) and surplus outer suburban DMU (166s) which are also 31-33 years old. Pretty poor for journeys that are upto 3.5 hours.

 

[The exile]

It has now got oldest stock it has had for at least 60 years, and maybe decades longer.

I believe the 1963 class 123 DMUs replaced 1930s Southern Railway Bulleid or Mansell coaches. The 123s didn't last that long before migrating to South Wales routes. Mk1 coaches were used for a while hauled by 31s, the class 205 DEMUs had a spell, then it was back to mk1 coaches with 33s, then new class 155s, superceded in early 1990s by 158s.

Now operated by 31-33 year old 158s and displaced suburban DMUs (class 165) and surplus outer suburban DMU (166s) which are also 31-33 years old. Pretty poor for journeys that are upto 3.5 hours.

While not trying to argue that the stock currently used on Severn - Solent services (showing my age there) is ideal - it isn’t - arguments based simply on age are missing the point. While actual age may/ will have an effect on reliability, “perceived age” will have more influence on the travelling public. (“Isn’t this a lovely new train!” Overheard on one of the refurbished 150/0s, at the time well over 30). Even then, probably only when the stock is inadequate in other ways as well….

 

[Sun Chariot]

Looks like GWR lack of rolling stock has reduced a number of Cardiff Portsmouth trains to 2car 158s today again

For such an important regional line (it serves 7 cities), it really is getting dregs of fleet, with every train at least 31 years old.

I only see two 2-car services: e.g. 1F05 to Pompey and 1F12 from Pompey (the previous 1F03 into Pompey).
All the others I see since 6am, are formed 3- 4- and 5-car.

Even so, passenger loading demand for the Easter weekend getaways, is surely more than 2 carriages...

 

[zwk500]

While actual age may/ will have an effect on reliability, “perceived age” will have more influence on the travelling public. (“Isn’t this a lovely new train!” Overheard on one of the refurbished 150/0s, at the time well over 30).

This is a key point - it's not age but the quality that matters. And arguments about age are also missing the points being made above about the number of carriages, not their age.

I only see two 2-car services: 1F05 to Pompey and 1F12 from Pompey (the previous 1F03 into Pompey). All the others I see since 6am, are formed 3- 4- and 5-car.

According to today's line up at Temple Meads for services from Cardiff to Portsmouth: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=GW

5 services are 2 cars, 7 are 3 cars, 4 are 4 cars, and 2 are 5 cars.

 

[Sun Chariot]

5 services are 2 cars, 7 are 3 cars, 4 are 4 cars, and 2 are 5 cars.

158749 and 158768 are the only two 2-car diagrams I see. Admittedly, they each do 2 out-n-back trips today. Attached timings on RTT, are for Cosham.

 

[zwk500]

158749 and 158768 are the only two 2-car diagrams I see. Admittedly, they esch do 2 out-n-back trips today. Attached timings on RTT, are for Cosham.

2 diagrams, which have enough time to go Bristol-Portsmouth-Bristol-Portsmouth, so 4 departures from Bristol to Portsmouth are 2 cars. The 5th is 165131, arriving Portsmouth 00.16 tomorrow, which comes off an Avonmouth diagram to form a Temple Meads-Parkway before forming Parkway to Pompey.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The 5th is 165131, arriving Portsmouth 00.16 tomorrow

2 carriages should be plenty enough, even for the late night revellers
(and who in their right mind, would want to turn up in Pompey at that time.... )

 

[Clarence Yard]

Considering the casualty list last night, thanks to hitting trees, water ingress, a PHBT and infrastructure failures affecting the balances, it’s amazing that they managed to turn out what they did. I was expecting far more 2 and 3 car workings on GWR today.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Considering the casualty list last night, thanks to hitting trees, water ingress, a PHBT and infrastructure failures affecting the balances, it’s amazing that they managed to turn out what they did. I was expecting far more 2 and 3 car workings on GWR today.

So true. Yesterday afternoon's Portsmouth Harbour services (in and out) were truncated at Portsmouth & Southsea.
RTT info shows the extent of affected services; including the return Statesman - departing instead from Southsea and one hour later than booked.

 

[Dan G]

All the informed comment is that Cardiff to Portsmouth remains 158 and Turbo operated with 175s doing Cardiff to Penzance, plus Exeter to Barnstaple and Okehampton. However, that would allow more services on the Portsmouth route to be 158s.

Yes, Cardiff-Portsmouth to become all 175s OR all 158s. I view both options to be equally likely.

 

[zwk500]

2 carriages should be plenty enough, even for the late night revellers
(and who in their right mind, would want to turn up in Pompey at that time.... )

Last trains can be fairly heavily loaded at times

Although the Severn Beach line diagrams (which tend to interwork the Severn Beach, Filton and Weston lines all day then do odd things in early mornings and late nights) need more than 2 carriages for the majority of the day, so unless this is some form of balancing move the whole diagram could do with a double set on it.

 

[Jim]

That last Bristol to Pompey Mon-Sat is only booked a 2 car anyway.

It is a hard thing to get right all of this, it's not as simple as just cancelling the 2HXX service group (for example) to provide an extra 2/3 car for the route, due to the interworkings on the Bristol Metro. Whilst you can simply step up stock every hour, this will at some point create issues with exam units and/or fuel for outstabled sets. Cancelling the 2HXX service group is also going to be less of an option soon politically I suspect, when Ashley Down opens, I doubt it would go well cancelling half their services consistently, suspect Mr Norris (etc) would have something to say about it.

The other option to provide extra stock is to remove some a Gloucester <> Bristol <> Westbury (etc) or Bristol <> Worcester circuit. Issue here then is that the Gloucester turn arounds go to/from Weymouth at some point in the diagram usually and all services nearly on that axis covey crew who either drive/work other trains that wouldn't be able to be there in time, if a particular train doesn't run. What do you actually do to get a happy balance, without enough resources?