Possible Class 333 scrapped?

[Jamesrob637]

I like 333s and would lament one being scrapped at only two decades old. Their air-con gets it just right - nice and cool yet not noisy, and to hell with the seats as you're never on one that long.

Oh and the uplifting "Welcome to the Skipton/Ilkley/Bradford train" as you pull out of Leeds along the Aire River valley!

 

[Neptune]

I like 333s and would lament one being scrapped at only two decades old. Their air-con gets it just right - nice and cool yet not noisy, and to hell with the seats as you're never on one that long.

Oh and the uplifting "Welcome to the Skipton/Ilkley/Bradford train" as you pull out of Leeds along the Aire River valley!

The 333s’s have been a success story since day 1. As built the 3 car units quickly attracted new patronage leading to the ordering of a 4th car in 2 batches which again caused such an upsurge that when we had a split 3 car and 4 car fleet you dreaded a 3 car on certain trains. Two options not taken up were either 16 extra vehicles to make them all 5 car (16 vehicles) or 5 extra 4 car units (20 vehicles) to replace the 321’s. Sadly neither option was taken up.

 

[Halish Railway]

Would it be possible to use some of the 332 trailers in the 333s? To the best of my knowledge the TPWS issues only affect the driving trailers.

 

[Adam0984]

Would it be possible to use some of the 332 trailers in the 333s? To the best of my knowledge the TPWS issues only affect the driving trailers.

Depends if the plan is to extend platforms for longer trains or to use the ASDO when 6 car 331s start running. If it's the latter and the platforms are kept at 4 car length then they would need fitting with some kind of SDO

 

[D365]

Would it be possible to use some of the 332 trailers in the 333s? To the best of my knowledge the TPWS issues only affect the driving trailers.

It's been discussed in the Speculative Ideas subforum and dismissed. Reportedly the braking systems of the Class 332 and 333 fleets are incompatible.

 

[Halish Railway]

It's been discussed in the Speculative Ideas subforum and dismissed. Reportedly the braking systems of the Class 332 and 333 fleets are incompatible.

Ah, fair enough, that probably explains why the 333 is a completely different subclass in the TOPS system and not a subclass. Whats the difference anyway?

 

[Jamesrob637]

The 333s’s have been a success story since day 1. As built the 3 car units quickly attracted new patronage leading to the ordering of a 4th car in 2 batches which again caused such an upsurge that when we had a split 3 car and 4 car fleet you dreaded a 3 car on certain trains. Two options not taken up were either 16 extra vehicles to make them all 5 car (16 vehicles) or 5 extra 4 car units (20 vehicles) to replace the 321’s. Sadly neither option was taken up.

Aw 5-car units would have been absolutely ideal. Maybe even a couple of 10-car formations in peaks and for events (rare)

 

[Neptune]

Aw 5-car units would have been absolutely ideal. Maybe even a couple of 10-car formations in peaks and for events (rare)

Plans for 5 car trains were simply to increase capacity on a single unit thus creating much more peak capacity. There was no intention of coupling up as 10 car trains as:-

a) it would be overkill even on the busiest peak service
b) not enough units would then be available
c) there’s going to be enough problems making 6 car platforms in places. 10 cars would be nigh on impossible.

The extra unit option was closer to happening but metro bottled it.

 

[James Kevill]

So is the Class 333009 currently being repaired but not being scrapped?

 

[Adam0984]

So is the Class 333009 currently being repaired but not being scrapped?

Correct

 

[alangla]

Plans for 5 car trains were simply to increase capacity on a single unit thus creating much more peak capacity. There was no intention of coupling up as 10 car trains as:-

a) it would be overkill even on the busiest peak service
b) not enough units would then be available
c) there’s going to be enough problems making 6 car platforms in places. 10 cars would be nigh on impossible.

The extra unit option was closer to happening but metro bottled it.

Can multiple sets run on the Airedale & Wharfedale lines anyway? I’ve a vague recollection of reading about an ECS from Skipton or somewhere that was booked for 2x333s but the rear one was always pan down and dead. Could be totally wrong certainly

 

[Adam0984]

Can multiple sets run on the Airedale & Wharfedale lines anyway? I’ve a vague recollection of reading about an ECS from Skipton or somewhere that was booked for 2x333s but the rear one was always pan down and dead. Could be totally wrong certainly

Yeah the morning ECS Skipton to Bradford runs with only 1 pan.

 

[Halish Railway]

Can multiple sets run on the Airedale & Wharfedale lines anyway? I’ve a vague recollection of reading about an ECS from Skipton or somewhere that was booked for 2x333s but the rear one was always pan down and dead. Could be totally wrong certainly

Go to 6 minutes 55 seconds on one of my videos -

 

[Jamesrob637]

Go to 6 minutes 55 seconds on one of my videos -

They look amazing in pairs (like 332s) especially as the front set was still in red.

 

[DB]

Yeah the morning ECS Skipton to Bradford runs with only 1 pan.

There's at least one in the evening back to Skipton carriage sidings as well - not sure where it comes from.

 

[Adam0984]

There's at least one in the evening back to Skipton carriage sidings as well - not sure where it comes from.

There was one from Ilkley at one point

 

[James Kevill]

Correct

That's good. I'm pleased that it won't be scrapped

 

[YorksLad12]

The extra unit option was closer to happening but metro bottled it.

We had enough trouble keeping eight of the extra fourth cars - from memory they were DfT funded for a while and they wanted to stop paying for them, so we nearly ended up with a mixed-length fleet.

They were gorgeous in the previous livery, but I never liked the 3+2 seating. Don't think I've been on one for a year now...

 

[Inthewest]

Wonder if they'd get rid of them in place of 323s... a more common fleet.
No actual thought has gone into this post.

 

[D365]

Wonder if they'd get rid of them in place of 323s... a more common fleet.
No actual thought has gone into this post.

Northern are known to be taking 17 of the 26 WMT Class 323s in order to replace their Class 319s. The remaining nine 3 car units are nowhere near enough to replace the 16 Class 333s.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wonder if they'd get rid of them in place of 323s... a more common fleet.
No actual thought has gone into this post.

A further order for 323s (built in Leeds of course) was originally priced into the Airedale/Wharfedale electrification project, but was cancelled in favour of the cheaper option of redundant but (arguably) non life-expired 308s from down South.

I do quite like the idea of 323s "coming home" to West Yorkshire to see out their days, but sentimentality rightly doesn't hold much water when it comes to rolling stock allocations!

That said, they'd be a better fit than 331s due to the higher density seating.

 

[marsker]

Can multiple sets run on the Airedale & Wharfedale lines anyway? I’ve a vague recollection of reading about an ECS from Skipton or somewhere that was booked for 2x333s but the rear one was always pan down and dead. Could be totally wrong certainly

I'm sure I remember reading when they were being introduced, and when getting a safety case for EMUs was almost impossible, that they went for a simplified one that didn't include working in multiple, although towing was included, and was route limited to the West Yorkshire lines and also Leeds - Doncaster - Heaton, in cast they needed to be maintained there. Back in those days (I think) Northern Spirit only had depots at Neville Hill and Heaton.
If I'm right, it's quite possible that there has never been a need to get the safety case updated.

 

[GoneSouth]

I like 333s and would lament one being scrapped at only two decades old. Their air-con gets it just right - nice and cool yet not noisy, and to hell with the seats as you're never on one that long.

Oh and the uplifting "Welcome to the Skipton/Ilkley/Bradford train" as you pull out of Leeds along the Aire River valley!

Ah yes, “this is a Bradford Forster Square Train”. They were fantastic when they first arrived, like a breath of fresh air compared to the pacers and the 40+ year old temporary 308s they replaced. They were bright, fast, smooth and quiet and the announcements were actually audible instead of some fed up Northern/Northern Spirit Yorkshireman mumbling his way up the Airedale line. They still beat everything northern has and I’m including the 195s and 331s, possibly with the exception of The 170s. The only downside is the 3+2 seating but I guess that is a necessity on a packed commuter line. They even have something no modern trains have, a personality with their big bubble cab ends. Leave them where they are please!

 

[Neptune]

Ah yes, “this is a Bradford Forster Square Train”. They were fantastic when they first arrived, like a breath of fresh air compared to the pacers and the 40+ year old temporary 308s they replaced. They were bright, fast, smooth and quiet and the announcements were actually audible instead of some fed up Northern/Northern Spirit Yorkshireman mumbling his way up the Airedale line. They still beat everything northern has and I’m including the 195s and 331s, possibly with the exception of The 170s. The only downside is the 3+2 seating but I guess that is a necessity on a packed commuter line. They even have something no modern trains have, a personality with their big bubble cab ends. Leave them where they are please!

The 333’s only beat the 170’s for me because the cab space is immense. 170’s have cramped cabs in comparison. But yes, the 333’s transformed the triangle even though I loved working the 308’s and continue to give great service nearly 20 years on.

Both 170’s and 333’s are vastly superior to the 195’s/331’s IMO.

 

[Dampfmann]

333 009 just through Wakefield/Wrenthorpe en route towards Leeds hauled by a 47 or 57 with barriers.

 

[Geeves]

Shes coming home !

 

[Adam0984]

That sneaked out

 

[Halish Railway]

Eh.... I thought that it was going to Crewe.

 

[Adam0984]

No back to Neville Hill after intensive fact finding and exploration into the cracked bolsters and how to fix them
What would it go to Crewe for?

 

[Harvey B]

No back to Neville Hill after intensive fact finding and exploration into the cracked bolsters and how to fix them
What would it go to Crewe for?

Whats happening to the 333s in terms of thr bolster repairs? Are They being done at Neville Hill or will they be going to derby