Possible Court Summons

[Atishyou]

This is horrifying and it could happen to anyone. Therefore we need to think of ways of generating continuous 24/7 evidence of location. Maybe there's a mobile app that could help?

You mean like Google's timeline or Apple tracking software?

 

[antharro]

I would suggest that neither of those would be suitable. A phone could be put in anyone's pocket and carried around to look like the owner is somewhere they are not.

 

[Darandio]

This is horrifying and it could happen to anyone. Therefore we need to think of ways of generating continuous 24/7 evidence of location. Maybe there's a mobile app that could help?

For a very rare occurence that will never happen to 99.99999% people. Do you often crack your nuts with sledgehammers?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Many revenue protection staff wear bodycams these days, which should achieve that aim. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the footage "went missing" in cases like this.

I was going to suggest anyone reported for prosecution should have their photo taken. Not only would an innocent person be protected from someone giving false details, should the innocent person recognise the ticketless miscreant, they could then also be prosecuted for providing false details.
Any bodycam footage going missing in this scenario would automatically have the case thrown out of court.

 

[najaB]

I was going to suggest anyone reported for prosecution should have their photo taken.

This would require a change to the law, as noted above.

 

[radamfi]

For a very rare occurence that will never happen to 99.99999% people. Do you often crack your nuts with sledgehammers?

Very rare? It happens "often" on the railway.

it happens often on the railway.

 

[radamfi]

This would require a change to the law, as noted above.

Could CCTV be used?

 

[Atishyou]

I would suggest that neither of those would be suitable. A phone could be put in anyone's pocket and carried around to look like the owner is somewhere they are not.

Why would the accused put his phone in the pocket of a stranger?

It's a means to an end. If he has witnesses and supporting evidence, it can help.

 

[najaB]

Could CCTV be used?

It could, but if you've ever seen Crimewatch (or similar) you would have seen that quality does vary considerably.

 

[6Gman]

Very rare? It happens "often" on the railway.

Whatever clip may suggest I really don't think it's a common occurrence. (People giving false details - plenty; people falling victim to such behaviour - less so; the rail operators pursuing such disputed cases - rarer still.)

 

[Hadders]

This is horrifying and it could happen to anyone. Therefore we need to think of ways of generating continuous 24/7 evidence of location. Maybe there's a mobile app that could help?

I'd rather my movements weren't continuously monitored. Who holds that data, where is it stored. Who has access to it.

Huge civil liberties issues.

 

[Atishyou]

I'd rather my movements weren't continuously monitored. Who holds that data, where is it stored. Who has access to it.

Huge civil liberties issues.

Not sure what you mean. It's not like major companies we trust are having data breaches weekly!

 

[Clip]

Whatever clip may suggest I really don't think it's a common occurrence. (People giving false details - plenty; people falling victim to such behaviour - less so; the rail operators pursuing such disputed cases - rarer still.)

Giving false details is a regular occurrence on the railway i was stating facts not anecdotes.

 

[antharro]

Why would the accused put his phone in the pocket of a stranger?

It's a means to an end. If he has witnesses and supporting evidence, it can help.

You missed the point. I was pointing out that neither Google or Apple tracking would prove that the phone's owner was at a given location, only that their phone was at that location.

 

[Atishyou]

You missed the point. I was pointing out that neither Google or Apple tracking would prove that the phone's owner was at a given location, only that their phone was at that location.

No I didn't, as per the latter part of my statement...it's supporting evidence, especially if the phone was in that location and being used by the user, adding that to a witness statement.

 

[87 027]

What if the phone's telemetry could show that it was being unlocked by the rightful owner's biometric authentication credentials whilst in use at the various locations being tracked?

 

[some bloke]

Are the train company obliged, if asked, to provide their evidence in advance of court?

Could the accused usefully write something like this?

"Since I did not commit this offence, I intend to dispute the accusation as far as necessary through the court system.

I therefore propose the sharing of evidence at this stage to avoid wasting public resources, including court time.

From my side:

[Summary of "the evidence I have so far considered presenting, which may not be limited to the following", eg

"I am of xx description.
Here is a recent photograph of me";
information/evidence including brief answers to reasonably likely objections, such as
"I know that the testimony of a family member may be doubted.
The family member is prepared to swear in court, has no history of dishonesty in such matters"]

On the company's side, please supply:

a) Any and all CCTV footage or stills from CCTV of the discussion with your staff member, or from any relevant time and place such as exit from the station

and/or

b) Any description recorded by your staff of the offender's visual appearance or other features

and/or

c) recollections obtained subsequently from your staff member relevant to identifying the offender.

My intention would be to cross-examine the staff member in court."

Phone after sending the email.

Maybe tell the local newspaper.

 

[najaB]

Could the accused usefully write something like this?

They could, but it's overkill. As noted above, a simpler version stating that they aren't the person stopped and that they have corroborated evidence to that fact should suffice in getting the ball rolling.