Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[edwin_m]

Presumably it wasn’t always like that?

On this type of junction where a branch curves away from a main line curving in the opposite sense, there is a tradeoff between speeds on the two routes. A junction without cant would allow more equal speeds and it was probably like that historically. However it has probably been re-designed in the meantime to give the main line a cant to allow higher speeds, which results in the branch having a negative cant and a lower speed. Reasons for this will be the need for journey time savings on the ECML, combined with trains that can reach higher speeds closer to Waverley, and the fact the diverging route was and still is less important.

It would most likelky still be possible to re-model for higher speeds on the branch but this would result in lower speeds on the main line, unless there is money and space for a major realignment of the whole junction.

 

[najaB]

I criticised NR for not upgrading the pitiful 15mph speed across the busy ECML to & from the Borders railway when the geometry & location would allow it.

That's doubtful. As pointed out already, you have a branch curving away right from a high-speed line that is curving left. I'd be surprised if you could raise it to 25mph safely, never mind 40mph.

 

[mcmad]

I understand that plans being developed for a remodelling to allow for a simplified double junction with 40mph to Brunstane while retaining the 90mph mainline speed. Hopefully be delivered around 2021 or so.

 

[najaB]

I understand that plans being developed for a remodelling to allow for a simplified double junction with 40mph to Brunstane while retaining the 90mph mainline speed. Hopefully be delivered around 2021 or so.

Does this involve making the mainline a 'double apex' curve so that the S&C is on a straight(ish) alignment? In any case, it doesn't sound like something that can be done with the stroke of a pen (as certain members seem to believe).

 

[mcmad]

No, its a full remodelling with the crossover moving North with new crossover onto the depot line to allow parallel moves onto the branch

 

[railjock]

On this type of junction where a branch curves away from a main line curving in the opposite sense, there is a tradeoff between speeds on the two routes. A junction without cant would allow more equal speeds and it was probably like that historically. However it has probably been re-designed in the meantime to give the main line a cant to allow higher speeds, which results in the branch having a negative cant and a lower speed. Reasons for this will be the need for journey time savings on the ECML, combined with trains that can reach higher speeds closer to Waverley, and the fact the diverging route was and still is less important.

It would most likelky still be possible to re-model for higher speeds on the branch but this would result in lower speeds on the main line, unless there is money and space for a major realignment of the whole junction.

Thanks.

 

[Photohunter71]

I still say they should double the track from the Niddrie split to Brunstane to allow greater flexibility of movement betwen waverley round the sub etc.

 

[XDM]

I understand that plans being developed for a remodelling to allow for a simplified double junction with 40mph to Brunstane while retaining the 90mph mainline speed. Hopefully be delivered around 2021 or so.

Thanks mcmad. That is excellent news.

Do you mind if I ask your source?
Can we go to it to see the good news in detail?

I remain cynical, so many Network Rail plans never materialise.

 

[385001]

A view of platforms 5 & 6 from earlier today

 

[och aye]

A lot more progress has been made. Rails are both roughly half way down on both platforms. Just from a causal look, major heavy construction could be finished by the end of the year.

 

[InOban]

The whole project was meant to be finished by the end of the year. Fortunately the delay to the introduction of the Azuma means it doesn't need to be finished by then.

 

[Aictos]

The whole project was meant to be finished by the end of the year. Fortunately the delay to the introduction of the Azuma means it doesn't need to be finished by then.

Doesn't hurt if they actually still manage to complete the project by 31st December though as it's still would give extra operational flexibility regardless of the Azuma being delayed.

 

[och aye]

Doesn't hurt if they actually still manage to complete the project by 31st December though as it's still would give extra operational flexibility regardless of the Azuma being delayed.

Yup. That's what I was thinking too. According to NR the project is due to be finished in early 2019:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...tland/edinburgh-waverley-platform-extensions/

 

[385001]

View from today.

 

[Aictos]

Just checking but whereabouts would the buffers go in that picture?

 

[Carntyne]

It'll depend but they'll probably go where the white barriers are at the bottom of the picture.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've just noticed the steel sleepers in the first photo seem to be spaced at a greater pitch than I remember seeing the concrete ones at the east end. Is this because it's only intended to be occupied by light passenger services at low speed or is it temporary works to get engineering trains in and will be replaced by concrete sleepers in due course?

The latest picture seems to suggest that track has gone, I suspect you’re probably right that it was temporary.

 

[GrimShady]

Weren't these platforms for the extra services VTEC planned to run?

 

[swt_passenger]

It'll depend but they'll probably go where the white barriers are at the bottom of the picture.

I think they might be further away. I think someone posted way back in this thread that there’d be what’s known as a “frangible deck” over the overrun behind the buffers. Allows the maximum circulation space, but the buffers can slide into it in extremis.

Looked back now and the info is available via the link to Edinburgh planning dept in post #12.

 

[railjock]

View from today.


View attachment 55397

Snap.

 

[385001]

Network Rail has published some fascinating photos of the work on Twitter including the old Nor" Loch sewer!

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/1063470398967300104

Great progress is being made on the extension of platforms 5 & 6 at #Edinburgh #Waverley station.

Engineering trains are being used to bring in materials to #Edinburgh #Waverley, including the precast units used to create the walls for platforms 5 & 6.

The excavation of platform 6 at #Edinburgh #Waverley station has uncovered the old Nor' Loch sewer which runs under several of the platforms within the station.

 

[Macwomble]

@385001 Very interesting photos....thanks for sharing.

 

[385001]

View from this morning. Doesn’t look too far from being finished.

 

[Photohunter71]

How much more capacity could the station potentially take until there's a clamour for another major station in Edinburgh. The reason I ask is, I was driving along the Western approach road a couple of days ago, I turned to my wife and said that we were driving on the old caley lines and I wonder how long it will be until they fully regret not having kept them available. Where, if possible could another "Haymarket" Sized station be placed in Edinburgh?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

How much more capacity could the station potentially take until there's a clamour for another major station in Edinburgh. The reason I ask is, I was driving along the Western approach road a couple of days ago, I turned to my wife and said that we were driving on the old caley lines and I wonder how long it will be until they fully regret not having kept them available. Where, if possible could another "Haymarket" Sized station be placed in Edinburgh?

I know there is a couple of disused platforms still. One between platform 3 and 4 and another between 3 and 2. Other than that there is very little they could change for additional capacity.

 

[swt_passenger]

I know there is a couple of disused platforms still. One between platform 3 and 4 and another between 3 and 2. Other than that there is very little they could change for additional capacity.

If you go back through this thread somewhere there’s quite a discussion (with links) about NR’s route study including plans to join existing bay platforms together through the station, and also to add a third line through the disused tunnel on the approaches, all about improving capacity. Around about post #643

 

[47271]

How much more capacity could the station potentially take until there's a clamour for another major station in Edinburgh. The reason I ask is, I was driving along the Western approach road a couple of days ago, I turned to my wife and said that we were driving on the old caley lines and I wonder how long it will be until they fully regret not having kept them available. Where, if possible could another "Haymarket" Sized station be placed in Edinburgh?

The value of a reinstated Princes Street station was discussed in this thread around a year ago.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/princes-street-station.158482/
Returning the West Approach to rail use might not be quite as productive as it first appears.

 

[KGC]

Presumably any future HS line will have to enter Waverley from the East due to capacity issues. Given the length of platform required, would this mean building on the current car park or is the current setup able to accommodate? I'd also be interested to know the best approach route - would it be feasible to rebuild the eastern/southern section of the south-sub for HS connected to a new line running south? I know there's been a lot of discussion surrounding eastern approaches, capacity issues and the south sub line, but am just curious (from a non expert's point of view!) about what is and isn't possible.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding the first picture in post #771, and the update in post #773 above, does anyone know the exact purpose of the huge concrete block on the right (P6 side), I assume there’ll also be a matching one on the other side at the same position. The first pic shows a foundation on the P5 side. They seem to be alongside where I’d expect the buffers to be positioned.

Is it possibly part of the support for the side girders of the frangible platform area? Or a foundation for something else, perhaps an OHLE portal?

 

[najaB]

Regarding the first picture in post #771, and the update in post #773 above, does anyone know the exact purpose of the huge concrete block on the right (P6 side)

My first though was that it is a precast box for underground services access.