Possible SPAD at Heworth?(Tyne and Wear Metro)

[Paul_10]

As no doubt local members will know, there is a possession between Heworth-Jarrow/South Hylton this weekend, this means trains are unusually terminating at Heworth.

I was on board a train and we waited at a red signal between Felling and Heworth, after a short wait we proceeded with a yellow aspect with a white feather aspect which meant the train would terminate unusually into Platform 2 and we went at a fairly low speed(which is probably the procedure during this possesion) however as we just approached the leading edge of P2 at Heworth, the brakes got slammed and the unfortunate passengers who were standing went flying and the driver soon made a PA announcement of apologising and requesting if anyone was injured to remain seated but fortunately there seem to be no injuries. Many passengers were wondering what was going on but one passenger who I believe was wearing a Go North East coat said the driver went past a red signal and the track magnets/brakes got activated. For those who don't know Heworth station there is no ground signals heading into P2, only one normal 2 red/green aspect signal for trains heading towards Newcastle. After the driver contact control and a 5 min wait later, we slowly entered the station and all the passengers left the train as per normal.

Too add a bit more information into the mix, this morning as I was heading into work, a train was arriving into Heworth and the driver stopped his train and then beep his horn then entered the station. This would suggest there was a procedure where you stop and get permission fro control to override the train magnets before proceeding into the station. That said, I noticed during our stop there was no signs telling the drivers to do this procedure(although no doubt they would of been told) which could be a bit unusual as during the 2 major line closures there was these signs before you entered Haymarket and South Gosforth to do the stop, overide the train magnets procedures.

This would suggest too me the driver more than likely to simply of forgotten to do this and that the train magnets were then activated as we went over the track magnets however would this be classed as a SPAD? Seeing as no signal was passed, there was no red STOP signs and there was no temporary signs set up then it would seem harsh to class this as a SPAD surely?

 

[455driver]

if there is no signal how has the driver SPADded?

 

[Paul_10]

if there is no signal how has the driver SPADded?

Hence the question I'm asking if it was or not, I'm also curious why would the track magnets would be applied indeed if this was the case.

 

[bb21]

Do we know for certain that it is the driver's fault?

 

[robertclark125]

I know the layout of Heworth station, and I would have to say, that where you describe the exact position that the train was suddenly stopped, is still a bit away from where the track magnet is for the inbound signal. The suggestion I have therefore is that the section that the train was going into, wasn't energised, i.e. the overhead wires were switched off for platform 2, and the train stopped due to lack of power.

It is possible for a train to be signalled into a section where there is no power, for instance, a battery loco rescuing a failed train, or engineering works.

 

[Paul_10]

I know the layout of Heworth station, and I would have to say, that where you describe the exact position that the train was suddenly stopped, is still a bit away from where the track magnet is for the inbound signal. The suggestion I have therefore is that the section that the train was going into, wasn't energised, i.e. the overhead wires were switched off for platform 2, and the train stopped due to lack of power.

It is possible for a train to be signalled into a section where there is no power, for instance, a battery loco rescuing a failed train, or engineering works.

Very unlikely it was that because the train was still running and the saloon lights were still fully on and platform 2 would of been in use for the whole day to allow trains to go in and out.

Only other explanation I can think of is that there might of been a fault with the track brakes on the train, after all it was a recently refurbished set(4063) and history would suggest that trains that only just been refurbished do tend to get more teething troubles. Still suspect though if indeed drivers have to overide the train magnet before entering that section then it was just simply forgetting to do that hence the train grinded to a halt as soon as it went over the track magnets but then if that was the case, why was there no signs put up to remind drivers like in other possessions. However I suppose if indeed it was the case, its a mistake that can easily happen but this sort of mistake that has very minimal risk to passengers due to the low speed entering that section.

 

[ModernRailways]

Were we on the same train? My train also did the same - around 1430. No word from the driver - like usual, would think they're all mute. We came to a stop a few people tutted and sighed but we were then back on our way with a *massive* blast on the horn from the driver. He went on the phone - signaller? - and that was it, I only heard because I was on the front seat :P

 

[142094]

There was/is a stop and over-ride procedure for trains entering Heworth today and yesterday due to the engineering work. There are magnets just before the platform which have to be over-rode before proceeding into the platform at slow speed. Signage is there on the OHL supports.

 

[Paul_10]

There was/is a stop and over-ride procedure for trains entering Heworth today and yesterday due to the engineering work. There are magnets just before the platform which have to be over-rode before proceeding into the platform at slow speed. Signage is there on the OHL supports.

Yep I noticed today there was signage but whilst I wasnt 100% paying attention whether there was signage or not, when we were at a stop I was in the single seat at the front and I did look around and I'm sure there was nothing on the OHL supports.

The incident happened just before 17:30(so whilst not broad daylight, it was light enough too see quite far ahead) so I wasnt on the same train as Modernrailways and whilst we were going the precautionary speed, the speed we were going at did not suggest we were going to come to a stop before entering P2 hence the passengers were standing when the brakes kicked in went quite a fair way forward.

The position where the signage was today was pretty clear so if there was signage yesterday then it does beg the question how the driver could miss it but I'm pretty sure there wasnt though.

ModernRailways - seeing as you were in the front seat, did you see any signage just before Heworth station?

 

[ModernRailways]

ModernRailways - seeing as you were in the front seat, did you see any signage just before Heworth station?

I don't remember seeing any? Saying that I wasn't particularly looking! There definitely wasn't any there on Friday

Our good friend CoachAlex (Metroman...) has uploaded a video, this looks like it may have been your train Paul as it looks to be 1730ish. Clicky clicky for video.

 

[robertclark125]

Looking at the video, it's a wee bit like an approach controlled signal, except in this case, the driver stops and presses override. The train can't "clear" the signal until the train has stopped and the system is over-rided.

 

[455driver]

There is no signal, its just a train stop.

 

[Paul_10]

I don't remember seeing any? Saying that I wasn't particularly looking! There definitely wasn't any there on Friday

Our good friend CoachAlex (Metroman...) has uploaded a video, this looks like it may have been your train Paul as it looks to be 1730ish. Clicky clicky for video.

Yes it was, Did wonder if Alex was there as I seen some people standing there but at least the video confirmed there was a sign there so apologies to any Nexus people reading after I originally thought there was no sign there!

So would this be classed as a SPAD despite there being no signal?

 

[455driver]

So would this be classed as a SPAD despite there being no signal?

SPAD means Signal Passed At Danger so probably not.
Although some managers might say the sign is classed as a signal because it says stop on it, I dont know what the (proper) stop boards look like up there so cannot be certain.

It will at least be classed as an operating incident and the driver will get the sh#t ripped out of him in the messroom for a while and possibly a little chat with his manager.

 

[142094]

The stop boards come in all manner of different forms so can get confusing at times.

As ever there should be a disclaimer with Coach Alex's videos seeing as he is not employed by the company and gets his information second hand. What also should be pointed out is that a track brake application can happen in a number of different ways which are not caused by a Spad, such as the driver putting on the emergency brake for whatever reason or a fault with the train or infrastructure.

 

[AdamTinning]

.........

 

[ModernRailways]

Yes, there was a SPAD there, as network rail had took over operations of the station. ( I dont have a clue what they were doing). It was the drivers fault, as there were red signs up, saying: "STOP, OVERRIDE, PROCEED." This was bolted on a post about 15 yards away from the SPAD magnet.

Have you got a source for any of this?

Also, why did Network Rail take over station operations? I highly doubt that, as it's a Nexus ran station and Network Rail weren't doing any work on that section of line.

 

[142094]

Yes, there was a SPAD there, as network rail had took over operations of the station. ( I dont have a clue what they were doing). It was the drivers fault, as there were red signs up, saying: "STOP, OVERRIDE, PROCEED." This was bolted on a post about 15 yards away from the SPAD magnet.

Unfortunately you are very much mis-informed:

1) Network Rail did not have control over the station.

2) You do not have knowledge of the procedure for engineering work on the system, why the 'SPAD' magnet was there and the procedure for overriding a magnet (which by the way is not referred to as a 'SPAD' magnet

3) You cannot say that it was the driver's fault as there are several other reasons why a train-stop application can occur.

 

[robertclark125]

Network rail's responsibilities at Heworth are purely for the national rail side of the station, which is the Northern service from Newcastle to Sunderland and beyond. The other side, the Metro, has nothing to do with NR, and they would not take control of the whole station and trackbed of Metro.

 

[Paul_10]

Have you got a source for any of this?

Also, why did Network Rail take over station operations? I highly doubt that, as it's a Nexus ran station and Network Rail weren't doing any work on that section of line.

In my OP it says the service was suspended between Heworth-Jarrow and South Hylton so the suspension could of been requested by Network Rail? However as its Nexus infrastructure then I very much doubt its got anything to do with NR this particular incident.

Regarding the incident itself, I just thought it was worth while reporting it on here to clarify whether it was an SPAD or not, nobody was hurt(although several passengers did move quite a bit forward when the brakes were applied) and there was no risk to passengers in terms of collisions. Only the driver will know why he never applied the brakes before the stop proceed sign and we can only speculate on here why and that is not always the best idea as we know from other threads.

 

[Jonny]

I remember the approach to Haymarket * being very similar last summer during the blockade season, when trains were being turned back there. It would stop or almost stop just before the station, then proceed into the station.

*as in the TW Metro station in Newcastle

 

[142094]

I remember the approach to Haymarket * being very similar last summer during the blockade season, when trains were being turned back there. It would stop or almost stop just before the station, then proceed into the station.

*as in the TW Metro station in Newcastle

Yes, the same procedure was used at Haymarket, and also South Gosforth when the 'Y' junction was being replaced.