Pregnant commuter forced to sit on the carriage floor

[GodAtum]

A pregnant commuter has hit out at train bosses for their seating policy after she was forced to sit on a carriage floor when she nearly collapsed.

Victoria Poskitt, who is just over five months’ pregnant with her first child, has asked for a special pass to sit in first class but does not qualify.

She sought the pass following a recent ordeal when she began to feel unwell on a packed South West Trains service from Surbiton to Waterloo.

When she informed fellow passengers, in the hope of being offered a seat, she was ignored and had to sink onto the floor for the rest of the journey.

Mrs Poskitt, 40, who commutes from Surbiton for her job in marketing, said SWT were unsympathetic when she asked for the pass, which allows pregnant women to sit in first class if there are no seats.

The company’s policy is two-fold: that the woman has to be no more than 20 weeks from her due date and that she travels with a weekly, monthly or annual season ticket.

Mrs Poskitt travels from Surbiton to London three days a week, working the other two days from her home in Yorkshire. She said: “You have to have a pass [to sit in first class], and because I travel three days a week, not five, I don’t have a pass, I pay by Oyster... I thought they might be willing to make an exception, particularly after I told them about what happened, but after conversations with various managers they’ve flatly said ‘no’, saying policy is policy.

“I don’t honestly know [what to do next], I keep trying with South West Trains, I’m throwing myself at their mercy because they could make all the difference to the last few months of my pregnancy.

“They said to me that if I’m feeling unwell I should find a guard; if they’ve been on one of their trains they should know that’s impossible. Then they said if you’re feeling unwell you should pull the emergency cord. Really?” She also said that even if the other passengers had not realised she was pregnant “simple human decency should have prevailed”.

A spokeswoman for the South West Trains-Network Rail Alliance said: “We are sorry to hear that Ms Poskitt felt unwell on one of our services. We have the most extensive upgrade scheme of any rail operator to help our customers who are expecting a baby.” She added that for pregnant women without season tickets, there were priority seats like those on the Tube.

“As on other forms of transport, our experience is that fellow passengers will often give up their seat for mums-to-be and other customers such as elderly people and we are sorry this did not happen,” the spokeswoman said.

London TravelWatch said operators should “show a bit of discretion” for pregnant women and people with mobility issues on crowded services.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/pregnant-commuters-fury-at-being-forced-to-sit-on-carriage-floor-instead-of-in-first-class-9133213.html

A very unfortunate incident, shame no-one gave up their seat. Of course she could of been stuck in a section of the carriage which the seats where taken by other people who also needed them.

 

[merlodlliw]

Interesting badge she is wearing.

 

[trainophile]

Perhaps she should treat herself to a monthly pass for the remainder of her commuting period. It's probably only three months, then she'll be on maternity leave. She already fits the criteria of being less than 20 weeks to her due date.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It is all well and good blaming the TOC here. Oh good fun lets blame the railways.

No.

What is wrong is that we now have a society where passengers will not offer a lady who is pregnant and struggling a seat. That is the problem, that society has become so bothered about their own welfare that they do not do what is right. It might be sexist but if i saw a woman sat on the floor i would get up straight away. If i was asked to get up by someone who seemed to need a seat i would move. If i noticed someone struggling i would get up and move.

 

[Harpers Tate]

[Controversial tongue in cheek]
Why is it the TOCs fault she chose to get pregnant and yet carry on working? If she isn't fit to commute she should cease doing so.
[/Controversial....]

 

[northern156]

"Waaah, why won't SWT give me a pass I don't qualify for, I'm pregnant, oh wait I'll bleat to the press, that'll sort it out"

:roll:

 

[meridian2]

It is all well and good blaming the TOC here. Oh good fun lets blame the railways.

No.

What is wrong is that we now have a society where passengers will not offer a lady who is pregnant and struggling a seat. That is the problem, that society has become so bothered about their own welfare that they do not do what is right. It might be sexist but if i saw a woman sat on the floor i would get up straight away. If i was asked to get up by someone who seemed to need a seat i would move. If i noticed someone struggling i would get up and move.

Very well said. This seems like a cheap way of sniping at a TOC with the possibility of added weight from our lovely tabloid media.

 

[starrymarkb]

The Standard won't dare blame the fellow passengers as that's their target audience!

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Standard won't dare blame the fellow passengers as that's their target audience!

All the comments all say its her fault and the other passengers though lol.

 

[TheEdge]

I saw that last night. The first thing I noticed was she is too pregnant to not get a first class seat free from SWT thanks very much but she is perfectly capable of commuting 3 days a week from Surbiton to London and then coming in every week from York...

 

[Tetchytyke]

She wanted a free first class ticket and was refused, so out come all the (Boden) toys.

I'm prepared to bet a fair wedge that she went straight to the first class compartment and didn't bother to ask anyone in standard for a seat. Half the trains from Surbiton don't have first class anyway.

It's what, half an hour from Surbiton? She can't cope with a short journey like that, but she can commute from "her home in Yorkshire". Yeah right.

 

[Gemz91]

It is all well and good blaming the TOC here. Oh good fun lets blame the railways.

No.

What is wrong is that we now have a society where passengers will not offer a lady who is pregnant and struggling a seat. That is the problem, that society has become so bothered about their own welfare that they do not do what is right. It might be sexist but if i saw a woman sat on the floor i would get up straight away. If i was asked to get up by someone who seemed to need a seat i would move. If i noticed someone struggling i would get up and move.

If you could "like" posts on here, I'd like this one. Hit the nail on the head.

 

[jon0844]

She could always, shock horror, pay for first class herself? Using her own money? Can't be that much of a premium can it?

I mean that's what other people do if they want to have a bigger seat, maybe some more privacy, a power socket, Wi-Fi or whatever.

Fair enough, Oyster doesn't have the ability to charge you a first class fare, but she could buy a regular paper ticket?

The only scandal here is that nobody offered her a seat, but I do have to wonder like others, if they weren't given the chance to as she had already decided she deserved to be in first class because season ticket holders that get pregnant are allowed.

The story to the press was to shame SWT into giving in.

Some of the comments on the site are disgusting though. Extremely personal and cruel, and there's no need for it. The idiots that post such hurtful stuff are also totally oblivious to the fact that it then really does turn her into a victim and she gets what she wants.

 

[OLJR]

An on-peak Oyster single form Surbiton to Waterloo is GBP 5.90, an off-peak is GBP 3.60 and the lady commutes three times a week.

Three on-peak Oyster returns are GBP 5.9 x 2 x 3 = GBP 35.4.

Three on-peak Oyster singles and an off-peak return is (GBP 5.9 + GBP 3.6) x 3 = GBP 28.50.

A weekly season ticket is GBP 44.00. So the lady could be eligible for the 1ST travel pass if she paid an extra GBP 8.60 per week, or GBP 15.50 per week if one of the trips is off-peak.

The lady is 40, works in marketing and lives in Surbiton. I am sure that an extra GBP 8.60 per week would be both affordable and good value for money to secure a 1ST seat for the remainder of her pregnancy.

 

[swj99]

Rather a misleading headline.

...forced to sit on carriage floor...

No she wasn't forced at all. Haven't journalists got a dictionary ?
Force is one of those words which seems to be misused these days, so much so that it has lost some meaning. It has become a cheap throwaway word. It annoys me so much to see it misused that I may be forced to calm down, and have another cup of tea.

 

[deltic]

Interesting badge she is wearing.

TfL provide these badges and they are worn by hundreds of ladies across London these days - the purpose is to nudge people to give up their seat without the embarrassment of people worrying about whether the lady in question is pregnant or just overweight! They have been around for a few years now.

 

[Holly]

... What is wrong is that we now have a society where passengers will not offer a lady who is pregnant and struggling a seat. That is the problem, that society has become so bothered about their own welfare that they do not do what is right. It might be sexist but if i saw a woman sat on the floor i would get up straight away. If i was asked to get up by someone who seemed to need a seat i would move. If i noticed someone struggling i would get up and move.

It is really shameful that it has come to this, it certainly did not need to be necessary, but -
please would some knowledgeable male start a petition that it be added to the terms of carriage (or whatever it is called nowadays) that able-bodied passengers must, on request, give up their seats to women four or more months pregnant?

And have the guards instructed to remove from the train any passenger who refuses to comply upon a first request to do so.

 

[northern156]

...give up their seats to women four or more months pregnant?

How would one know how many months pregnant a woman is?
Plus, what if I have reserved a seat? Does this 'restriction' occur then when it is my seat?

 

[GodAtum]

Plus, what if I have reserved a seat? Does this 'restriction' occur then when it is my seat?

Can you reserve a priority seat?

 

[meridian2]

Rather a misleading headline.

No she wasn't forced at all. Haven't journalists got a dictionary ?
Force is one of those words which seems to be misused these days, so much so that it has lost some meaning. It has become a cheap throwaway word. It annoys me so much to see it misused that I may be forced to calm down, and have another cup of tea.

Like me with people splitting hairs over semantics. I have to have a cup of tea too so I guess two's company.

 

[northern156]

Can you reserve a priority seat?

Given the choice I wouldn't, but I don't even know if this is possible or not.

 

[WelshBluebird]

And have the guards instructed to remove from the train any passenger who refuses to comply upon a first request to do so.

And what if the person looks able bodied but actually isn't? Just because someone looks fit and healthy, it doesn't mean that they are.

 

[howittpie]

My first thought when I read this was if she should buy a first class ticket. I don't if any other toc have this with a s[ecial pass for season ticket holders who are pregnant. I personally do not agree with this South West Trains policy if people want to sit in first they then pay a first class fare.

However it got me thinking about politeness on public transport I have occasion to travel with elderly people in the London area and generally find people only to willing to give up their seats even though it is never expected by the people I travel with. However my personal observations are that people who work in the city suits never do and are also the rudest people pushing and shoving when trying to board a train. I have observed teenagers and football fans are the most likely to perhaps the 2 categories of people you wouldn't expect.

 

[dannypye9999]

It is really shameful that it has come to this, it certainly did not need to be necessary, but -
please would some knowledgeable male start a petition that it be added to the terms of carriage (or whatever it is called nowadays) that able-bodied passengers must, on request, give up their seats to women four or more months pregnant?

And have the guards instructed to remove from the train any passenger who refuses to comply upon a first request to do so.

What if the able bodied person who your demanding the seat from isn't feeling very well? Remember its YOUR choice to become pregnant not the passengers.

 

[jon0844]

Can you reserve a priority seat?

Me and my wife got priority seats allocated to us on an East Coast service.

Nobody asked us to move, which would have been rather annoying to be honest given the time of journey.

I have observed teenagers and football fans are the most likely to perhaps the 2 categories of people you wouldn't expect.

Yeah, football fans can be surprisingly nice despite being very loud, rude and intimidating throughout.

I think some TOCs have gone from giving first class upgrades during pregnancy to having special cards to show to people to get a seat. Like a Baby on Board badge, but for ANY disability - including those that might not be obvious.

However, this lady presumably wanted to be in first class. I find it near impossible to believe that nobody would have given her a seat in standard class if she'd asked. She can't expect everyone to notice her, even with her badge, as most commuters are head down in a paper or their mobile to notice who's standing.

But she didn't want a seat in standard did she?

 

[chris89]

Can you reserve a priority seat?

On VT Services you can be allocated them, when you reserve a seat. When i have been allocated them, i've never been asked to move. Although offered for some been told no thank you.

I think some TOCs have gone from giving first class upgrades during pregnancy to having special cards to show to people to get a seat. Like a Baby on Board badge, but for ANY disability - including those that might not be obvious.

However, this lady presumably wanted to be in first class. I find it near impossible to believe that nobody would have given her a seat in standard class if she'd asked. She can't expect everyone to notice her, even with her badge, as most commuters are head down in a paper or their mobile to notice who's standing.

But she didn't want a seat in standard did she?

I would have to agree with that myself as well. Also depending what wearing, might make it a lot more difficult to notice if someone is pregant or not.

Also it isn't just up to Male passengers to offer seats either, Although lots of the time it does appear expected.

Also from the comment from Holly. How could you tell if someone was or not though?

And have the guards instructed to remove from the train any passenger who refuses to comply upon a first request to do so.

That its self would cause lots of issues, even if someone looks healthy it doesn't mean they are. Also it most likely would lead to confrontations with rail staff etc as well.

 

[Geezertronic]

I highly doubt that she is the sort of woman who can be forced to do anything. She expected a first class upgrade, didn't get it and looks to have pulled a strop. I also highly doubt that absolutely no one would give up a seat for her, maybe they could have seen her being a stroppy cow to the staff and thought "sod her" - who knows...

 

[overtonchris]

Obviously pregnancy/ disability etc are highly emotive subjects and gets all sorts of people hopping up and down without knowing any substantiated facts whatsoever.

I was on a 3/4 empty train from Clapham J to Harrow and Wealdstone (Southern) and chose to sit in a priority seat on the 377/2 unit. Guard came around to check tickets and very loudly "rapped" on the "priority seat sign" in front of me - but said nothing. I asked him what his problem was, as I gave him my ticket - and also stated that if he or anyone else wanted me to move I'd happily do so. He just grunted and moved on. I am mobility restricted and in pain frequently - but don't usually use crutches - zimmer frame - iron lung etc.

On these Southern units the sign actually states in the penultimate line words to the effect of "please remember that a disability/ mobility difficulty may not be obvious".

In addition - there have been a number of occasions where I've offered my seat on crowded trains and buses to people I've judged to be more "worthy" than me only to be rebuked with "I'm not THAT old", and "don't be so bloody chauvinist"- this from a lady obviously struggling with herds of shopping.

Hey Ho. Damned if you do and Damned if you don't. Most of us are decent people however, and the lady should have just asked a fellow passenger.....she would have got a seat for sure.

 

[cf111]

On XC Voyagers, in first class anyway, the priority area signs have "Priority by Law" or something along those lines written on it. I've never seen it anywhere else.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't [know?] if any other toc have this with a special pass for season ticket holders who are pregnant...

This is the sort of coverage that probably makes any TOC wonder if it is worthwhile offering this sort of help. And if SWT are already offering it as an extra for some regulars, it must be a bit galling when London Travelwatch then come along and respond with criticism of them for not doing so.

Maybe the easiest way to stop the critics is to get rid of the privilege?