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Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

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Cardiff123

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I read in either RAIL or Modern Railways a few months ago that EMR had sent a few 153s off lease and away to warm storage. Make sense for TfW to take them on if they are serious about getting rid of as many Pacers as possible in January.
 
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craigybagel

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I read in either RAIL or Modern Railways a few months ago that EMR had sent a few 153s off lease and away to warm storage. Make sense for TfW to take them on if they are serious about getting rid of as many Pacers as possible in January.
Fingers crossed if we're getting any it's these ones - the ex EMR units we already have are by a long way better then the other 153s in the fleet. I wish it was those ones we were keeping long term.
 

Anonymous10

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Fingers crossed if we're getting any it's these ones - the ex EMR units we already have are by a long way better then the other 153s in the fleet. I wish it was those ones we were keeping long term.
I'd rather the original ones once prmed the tfw ones are lovely only thing is is to replace pacers and be compliant or at least offer fully compliant trains all time they need to prm these 153's as well
 

Bikeman78

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I'd rather the original ones once prmed the tfw ones are lovely only thing is is to replace pacers and be compliant or at least offer fully compliant trains all time they need to prm these 153's as well
As I understand it, most of the 153s are not having PRM mods because they are only expected to be used short term. In my opinion, bringing in more non PRM 153s purely to ditch Pacers is daft. A 153 is less reliable than a Pacer or a 150 and also has a lower power to weight ratio than any Pacer or Sprinter.
 

Bob Price

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It may also be political. The Pacer brand has become a bit tainted over the years so TfW and Northern want shot of them. With the delay in driver training on the 230's and the 769 delays I guess they need something for a few months to get it all sorted.
 

Bikeman78

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It may also be political. The Pacer brand has become a bit tainted over the years so TfW and Northern want shot of them. With the delay in driver training on the 230's and the 769 delays I guess they need something for a few months to get it all sorted.
I expect you are right. They'll need a lot of 153s to replace all the Welsh Pacers though!
 

Cardiff123

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As I understand it, most of the 153s are not having PRM mods because they are only expected to be used short term. In my opinion, bringing in more non PRM 153s purely to ditch Pacers is daft. A 153 is less reliable than a Pacer or a 150 and also has a lower power to weight ratio than any Pacer or Sprinter.
Define 'short term' though. We're almost into 2021. The 769s are now 2 and a half years late and counting. The way things are going, the first of TfW's new CAF DMUs will be in passenger service before the 769s are.

I expect you are right. They'll need a lot of 153s to replace all the Welsh Pacers though!
There's also the added complication that 153s can't go any further up than Radyr on the Taff Valley lines, blocking them from being used on most Valleys diagrams via Queen St, which is where Pacers can be found.
 

supervc-10

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Define 'short term' though. We're almost into 2021. The 769s are now 2 and a half years late and counting. The way things are going, the first of TfW's new CAF DMUs will be in passenger service before the 769s are.

I honestly feel like it wouldn't be surprising if the 197s, 231s, 756s were all in service before we see the 769s. Despite them not being built yet.
 

craigybagel

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Define 'short term' though. We're almost into 2021. The 769s are now 2 and a half years late and counting. The way things are going, the first of TfW's new CAF DMUs will be in passenger service before the 769s are.
As bad as things have been, given the 769s are going through staff training and a single 197 hasn't been completed yet, that does seem unlikely.

There's also the added complication that 153s can't go any further up than Radyr on the Taff Valley lines, blocking them from being used on most Valleys diagrams via Queen St, which is where Pacers can be found.
Whilst this is true, overall the 153s are more flexible then the Pacers. Apart from the Taff Valley, the only other place they can't go is the Cambrian lines. They can be used pretty much everywhere else on the TfW network, whilst Pacers are pretty much useless outside South or West Wales.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Only nine 769s are coming. There are thirty 14x to replace. These usually work in pairs so that’s fifteen trains. That is therefore six 769s short of equally replacing Pacers, let alone the 153s, surely?
 

Caaardiff

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Cast back a bit further. There's already 12 170s brought in to the fleet which freed up both 150s and pacers, along with the extra 153s that were brought in permanently. Overall the balance isn't far off.

Also with covid services are currently nowhere near reaching full capacity levels like before do has offered some temporary breathing space.
It has also meant that no single 153s can be used, so all single 153 workings are having to be doubled up.

What happens next is anyones guess. I can see the temporary 153s staying longer, maybe as a permanent fixture to the fleet. There would be the cost and hassle of converting to PRM compliance but if they are around long enough it could offer scope for expansion of services.
 

Rhydgaled

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Only nine 769s are coming. There are thirty 14x to replace. These usually work in pairs so that’s fifteen trains. That is therefore six 769s short of equally replacing Pacers, let alone the 153s, surely?
Nine 769s plus twelve 170s and two 150s (cascaded south after introduction of 230s) equals 23 trains incoming to replace 30 Pacers. If we assume that the 769s can each replace a pair of Pacers and the other 14 units only replace 1 Pacer each that's a total of 32 Pacers which could be replaced if TfW had that many.
 

Cardiff123

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As bad as things have been, given the 769s are going through staff training and a single 197 hasn't been completed yet, that does seem unlikely.

I was exaggerating, but that's certainly how it feels. Plus only 3 out of TfW's 9 x 769s have so far started their 1000 miles of FFR.
 

Wyrleybart

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Cast back a bit further. There's already 12 170s brought in to the fleet which freed up both 150s and pacers, along with the extra 153s that were brought in permanently. Overall the balance isn't far off.

Also with covid services are currently nowhere near reaching full capacity levels like before do has offered some temporary breathing space.
It has also meant that no single 153s can be used, so all single 153 workings are having to be doubled up.

What happens next is anyones guess. I can see the temporary 153s staying longer, maybe as a permanent fixture to the fleet. There would be the cost and hassle of converting to PRM compliance but if they are around long enough it could offer scope for expansion of services.
Some of the current TfW valleys diagrams are peak only aren't they - the Rhymneys particularly ?
Although it is still a "pig in a poke" shortforming in the peaks, particularly with covid train usage is not quite so critical.

How about the Stadlers ? The Anglia units were all delivered to the UK a few months ago so I imagine the TfW varieties will definitely be in build now, even if the prototypes all all but complete.
 

PHILIPE

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Some of the current TfW valleys diagrams are peak only aren't they - the Rhymneys particularly ?
Although it is still a "pig in a poke" shortforming in the peaks, particularly with covid train usage is not quite so critical.

How about the Stadlers ? The Anglia units were all delivered to the UK a few months ago so I imagine the TfW varieties will definitely be in build now, even if the prototypes all all but complete.


The Valleys units are out all day as, for one thing, it avoids attacking/detaching at Cardiff Central with any potential performance issues. There was an exception when services were adjusted to allow for the 37s to work in the peak.
 

Bikeman78

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Nine 769s plus twelve 170s and two 150s (cascaded south after introduction of 230s) equals 23 trains incoming to replace 30 Pacers. If we assume that the 769s can each replace a pair of Pacers and the other 14 units only replace 1 Pacer each that's a total of 32 Pacers which could be replaced if TfW had that many.
However, the class 170s started running in December and hadn't replaced any Pacers by March 23 when lockdown started. All that happened was an increase in the number of four car trains on the valleys. There were still 25 or 26 diagrams for the 30 units.

Also, if my calculations are correct, there are only seven class 170 diagrams for 12 units. They can't run anywhere else so assuming they could diagram 10 from 12 that's three units wasted.
 

anamyd

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Ooops, that does put a fly in the ointment doesn't it. Won't be those then
I've been told that ex-West Midlands Trains 153371 and 153375 attempted to move to Canton today but apparently had "gone a different way" and failed at Worcestershire Parkway, this is just what I was told. Anyway here's the schedule:

 

PHILIPE

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West Midlands Trains (or ex) 153371 and 153375 are en route on 5D85 from Burton to Canton but at the moment are blocking the line having struck an obstruction (not specified as usual) and lost all air in the Abbottswood Junction area causing XC to divert via Kidderminster
 

ABB125

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West Midlands Trains (or ex) 153371 and 153375 are en route on 5D85 from Burton to Canton but at the moment are blocking the line having struck an obstruction (not specified as usual) and lost all air in the Abbottswood Junction area causing XC to divert via Kidderminster
I've heard that the class 153s have failed and will be rescued by an XC class 170...

I saw them at Kings Norton earlier, and was a bit disappointed as I had no idea what was coming.
 
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West Midlands Trains (or ex) 153371 and 153375 are en route on 5D85 from Burton to Canton but at the moment are blocking the line having struck an obstruction (not specified as usual) and lost all air in the Abbottswood Junction area causing XC to divert via Kidderminster
It didn't strike anything, the drive shaft and associated equipment decided it didn't want to be apart of the train anymore
 

anthony263

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Tfw are 1 class 153 down as one despite being out of gauge has made it to Treherbert attached to a 150 and now cant get back
 

PHILIPE

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Tfw are 1 class 153 down as one despite being out of gauge has made it to Treherbert attached to a 150 and now cant get back


It went up there Wednesday morning and the return journey was cancelled due, according to Journey Check, "operating incident" but on the train itself was described as "Replaced by slower train". In case people are not sure they only have Route Availability" as far as Radyr and is 153312.
 

Bikeman78

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Heard its got some scrape marks on the side if it
I heard that too. I also heard that it had the scrape marks before it went to Treherbert. However, to come back, it will need to pass six platforms that it didn't pass on the way up.
 

Anonymous10

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I heard that too. I also heard that it had the scrape marks before it went to Treherbert. However, to come back, it will need to pass six platforms that it didn't pass on the way up.
Possible to send it down the way it went up but at night ?? When there are less services I'm not local so not sure
 
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