Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

[Caaardiff]

Could they run 3x 153s together on the Rhymney line? With 2 of them being without PRM toilets and 1 with and still remain compliant? A 3 car would be sufficient capacity for most services outside of normal peak times and utilise them better.
They are also running around in pairs on a few routes, mainly West Wales and well and Chester - Liverpool & Crewe.

 

[PHILIPE]

Could they run 3x 153s together on the Rhymney line? With 2 of them being without PRM toilets and 1 with and still remain compliant? A 3 car would be sufficient capacity for most services outside of normal peak times and utilise them better.
They are also running around in pairs on a few routes, mainly West Wales and well and Chester - Liverpool & Crewe.

They have done so frequently during last year and were booked to. This was prior to the last dispensations granted though that took effect from January 1st 2021 but I don't see why not as some other class run around with just one toilet (PRM) in their formation or can run with a 150.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I briefly went on a refurbished 175 earlier

What...A...Contrast. puts it into context how antique the old interior had become.

 

[Bikeman78]

I’m well aware of that.

It does help in day-to-day operation. It boosts capacity. Can free up more 150s that are doing mainline work to go onto the valleys.

How will it free up 150s? What will change between now and May? Inevitably what has happened is that a few refurbs have clustered in North Wales, leaving several unusable 153/9 at Canton. Once that happens, it's quite difficult to balance them out again. The refurbishment will make them nicer for passengers but unlikely to help the shortage of units.

 

[anthony263]

150236 is due back soon after being refurbished and repainted

 

[PHILIPE]

How will it free up 150s? What will change between now and May? Inevitably what has happened is that a few refurbs have clustered in North Wales, leaving several unusable 153/9 at Canton. Once that happens, it's quite difficult to balance them out again. The refurbishment will make them nicer for passengers but unlikely to help the shortage of units.

As has been pointed out earlier in Post #874 they are only stop gaps so would you have preferred them not to have come at all. Porterbrook offered them to help out as compensation for their delayed 769 project. At the moment TFW are not working at full capacity due to the COVID Timetable.

 

[craigybagel]

What it might mean is that TfW are finally able to do something they wanted to do 2 years ago, and permanently remove 150s from the North.

 

[berneyarms]

What it might mean is that TfW are finally able to do something they wanted to do 2 years ago, and permanently remove 150s from the North.

That would make a lot of sense.
It would eliminate the necessary Class 150 workings along the Marches Line to rotate stock.

The Class 153 units could rotate through the Conwy Valley, Crewe/Chester and Crewe/Shrewsbury diagrams and then rotate south via the HOWL.

 

[Wyrleybart]

That would make a lot of sense.
It would eliminate the necessary Class 150 workings along the Marches Line to rotate stock.

The Class 153 units could rotate through the Conwy Valley, Crewe/Chester and Crewe/Shrewsbury diagrams and then rotate south via the HOWL.

Thinking on from this, would it help if the 153s were planned to be paired for diagramming and maintenance ? Nominate some 153/0 and 153/9 as planned pairings, as the latter can't very well do anything without a 153/0 attached. Presume there are more /0s than /9s and I appreciate the latter are supposed to be temporary anyway.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thinking on from this, would it help if the 153s were planned to be paired for diagramming and maintenance ? Nominate some 153/0 and 153/9 as planned pairings, as the latter can't very well do anything without a 153/0 attached. Presume there are more /0s than /9s and I appreciate the latter are supposed to be temporary anyway.

If my counting is correct there are 13 of each but approx 5/6 (hard to tell during COVID) single 153/3 diagrams leaving a surplus of 153/9s..

 

[sd0733]

If my counting is correct there are 13 of each but approx 5/6 (hard to tell during COVID) single 153/3 diagrams leaving a surplus of 153/9s..

4 of the /9s are even more temporary than the others though i believe, the 4 most recent arrivals so once those go back there will be 9 /9s again
Im suprised the way there are often PRM pairings on Chester-Crewe/Liverpool as that essentially
Makes 4 of the /9s unusable. Wouldnt be suprised to see separate diagrams eventuallyfor each subfleet as once more units are needed again having trains which cant be used is far from ideal.

 

[Bikeman78]

What it might mean is that TfW are finally able to do something they wanted to do 2 years ago, and permanently remove 150s from the North.

I don't think that will be possible. The 230s will remove 150s from Wrexham to Bidston but, correct me if I'm wrong, one of the platforms on the Blaenau line is too short for a pair of 153s. So that will have to remain a 150 until the new units arrive.

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't think that will be possible. The 230s will remove 150s from Wrexham to Bidston but, correct me if I'm wrong, one of the platforms on the Blaenau line is too short for a pair of 153s. So that will have to remain a 150 until the new units arrive.

The platform is Dolgarrog which has been documented on here. Prior to the Conwy Valley line closing again and TFW resuming operating single 153s again, a Single 153 was being used on the Conwy Valley. The question then is what will operate in the Summer post COVID when 2 carriages are required..

 

[Bikeman78]

A sensible idea. Permanently coupled to another 153 with a modified toilet, there won’t be a need for one - thus keeping space for more seats.

If my counting is correct there are 13 of each but approx 5/6 (hard to tell during COVID) single 153/3 diagrams leaving a surplus of 153/9s..

Having pondered this a bit more, yes are 13 PRM units and there will be 13 non PRM once the four extras are up and running. So pairing up sets with similar exam mileages makes a lot of sense. Do the A and B exams on the pair at the same time. Only split the pairs if two or more units have a major fault that will take them out for several days. Two cars on the Heart of Wales, and the Crewe-Shrewsbury stoppers, would be useful in the summer anyway.

 

[craigybagel]

I don't think that will be possible. The 230s will remove 150s from Wrexham to Bidston but, correct me if I'm wrong, one of the platforms on the Blaenau line is too short for a pair of 153s. So that will have to remain a 150 until the new units arrive.

Plenty of stations on the TFW network are too short for the trains that call there. A world in which the crowds on the Blaneau branch are enough to warrant 2 X 153 is a world in which guards can go back to local door only operation.

 

[Bikeman78]

The platform is Dolgarrog which has been documented on here. Prior to the Conwy Valley line closing again and TFW resuming operating single 153s again, a Single 153 was being used on the Conwy Valley. The question then is what will operate in the Summer post COVID when 2 carriages are required..

Recently it has been a 150 again. I think a single 153 would be cosy in the summer but I haven't done the Conwy Valley since the class 101s finished.

 

[PHILIPE]

Having pondered this a bit more, yes are 13 PRM units and there will be 13 non PRM once the four extras are up and running. So pairing up sets with similar exam mileages makes a lot of sense. Do the A and B exams on the pair at the same time. Only split the pairs if two or more units have a major fault that will take them out for several days. Two cars on the Heart of Wales, and the Crewe-Shrewsbury stoppers, would be useful in the summer anyway.

972 and 982 of the extra 4 are now up and running.

 

[Bikeman78]

Plenty of stations on the TFW network are too short for the trains that call there. A world in which the crowds on the Blaneau branch are enough to warrant 2 X 153 is a world in which guards can go back to local door only operation.

Fair enough. Time will tell. Is May looking promising for 230s on the Bidston line?

 

[Cardiff123]

Why is this thread still talking about the 5 ex-GA and 4 ex-EMR 153s taken on last year by TfW as being temporary? It's now been reported by the two most read industry magazines (RAIL and MR) in the last month that TfW intend to make the 9 temporary 153s it took on last year PRM compliant by May, and then keep them on permanently. So there are now only 4 temporary 153s in the fleet, the 4 that arrived recently and were obviously brought in to cover the 9 from GA and EMR that need to go away for PRM refurb.
So from May, TfW will have 22 permanent, PRM compliamt 153s, albeit 9 won't have toilets.

So it looks like TfW could have 9 permament double 153 sets from May, with one 153 in each double set being a toilet-less 153. And possibly a toilet-less 153 could work the Cardiff Bay shuttle alone when that is running again.

 

[craigybagel]

Fair enough. Time will tell. Is May looking promising for 230s on the Bidston line?

I'm not privy to such things but given the amount of traincrew who need training and the limited time left I would be worried. They could attempt to replace the 150s with 2 X 153 as a temporary measure - 153s have turned up on Bidston a few times lately and they aren't quite as sluggish when run in multiple as they are singly.

 

[Caaardiff]

I'm not privy to such things but given the amount of traincrew who need training and the limited time left I would be worried. They could attempt to replace the 150s with 2 X 153 as a temporary measure - 153s have turned up on Bidston a few times lately and they aren't quite as sluggish when run in multiple as they are singly.

Unions won't allow it.

230 training has been happening for the past few weeks. With the reduced timetable its probably allowed drivers to be freed up.

 

[PHILIPE]

Recently it has been a 150 again. I think a single 153 would be cosy in the summer but I haven't done the Conwy Valley since the class 101s finished.

Recently it hasn't been anything at all trainwise, but a single 153 worked the final few days replacing a 150. The line got flooded again but when that cleared after a few days, the COVID Timetable was introduced and TFW decided to continue with bus operation. I have never travelled along the route but driven along the surrounding roads

 

[Eccles1983]

Unions won't allow it.

230 training has been happening for the past few weeks. With the reduced timetable its probably allowed drivers to be freed up.

Nothing to do with the unions.

153's cannot keep to time. They lose 14 minutes compared to a round trip with a 150. And the way the line is funded means that anything less than an hourly service (in normal times) is unacceptable for the bill payer (the council)

Also no regular training has taken place on 230's for drivers. Instructors have been running it. But for regular drivers it hasn't happened.

 

[Caaardiff]

Nothing to do with the unions.

153's cannot keep to time. They lose 14 minutes compared to a round trip with a 150. And the way the line is funded means that anything less than an hourly service (in normal times) is unacceptable for the bill payer (the council)

Also no regular training has taken place on 230's for drivers. Instructors have been running it. But for regular drivers it hasn't happened.

A single 153 maybe, but how much difference is there between 2 153s and a 150?
I've heard of single 153s on that line but not a pair.

 

[PHILIPE]

A single 153 maybe, but how much difference is there between 2 153s and a 150?
I've heard of single 153s on that line but not a pair.

A pair of 153s worked late night and early morning services early last year following a 150 failure and until they could be replaced by another one. They struggled up Hawarden Bank especially during leaf fall season when they were regular on the Borderlands.

 

[sd0733]

A single 153 maybe, but how much difference is there between 2 153s and a 150?
I've heard of single 153s on that line but not a pair.

The other issue with most, but not quite all 153s is that the doors are painfully slow to open and close. When in multiple with a 150 the doors are shut on the 150 and hazard light extinguished long before any 153 in the formation. Over a lot of stops in quick succession this could make quite a difference.

 

[Anonymous10]

A full heavy refurb for 3 years seems overkill. Mind you Avanti have done the Voyagers and they've only got a year or so left.

but as we all know it could run over schedule

 

[animationmilo]

With Covid and everything happening, Do you think TFW will keep all the current stock or do you think they will get all the new trains?

 

[Anonymous10]

With Covid and everything happening, Do you think TFW will keep all the current stock or do you think they will get all the new trains?

if I'm thinking correct the welsh government were funding them (not 100%) i can see them getting some ie to replace 150s 153s but i would possibly retain 158s and 175s but all comes down to costs ie if cost to cancel is to high they will have them anyway

 

[Bletchleyite]

With Covid and everything happening, Do you think TFW will keep all the current stock or do you think they will get all the new trains?

I doubt they have an option to exit the contract, so I'd imagine they will get them, yes.