Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[RealTrains07]

Maybe the grey doors are to make them easier to spot for people who are visually imparied? Unsure?

Odd since the avanti blue would stand out from the white very easily as was the case when the first 390s with the livery had blue doors.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Should imagine the non tilt running on the North wcml would see them lose maybe 15 or 20 minutes as happens when you get the odd random voyager in particular who's tilt mechanism isn't working properly what is being worked in service in order to get back to Central rivers for attention from a nice big fitters even bigger hammer

I thought this would be partly cancelled out by having better acceleration than the Voyagers

 

[North-Valiant]

Could an 805 and 807 work together and would this ever happen in reality?

 

[AJDesiro]

Could an 805 and 807 work together and would this ever happen in reality?

AFAIK there’s plans to test them in multiple at some point, as they will more than likely end up coupling together for rescue at some point, a 12 car 80X won’t fit at many platforms.

 

[superalbs]

Is it really too much to ask for a bit of blue paint around the cab doors to fill in the gaps they can't vinyl?

I noticed that, it looks really poor. Same on GWR Class 800 (5 car).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought this would be partly cancelled out by having better acceleration than the Voyagers

Partly yes, but there is still an impact.
We have still to see the MU speed profile to be introduced for the 80x on WCML south of Weaver Jn.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Class 805's - 805003 & 805001 on a test run along the North Wales Coast

 

[DJH1971]

It was mentioned 805005 was going to be revealed this week.

This still the case?

 

[800001]

It was mentioned 805005 was going to be revealed this week.

This still the case?

Unless they really get there finger out it’s still only part vinyled and dumped outside in yard at Hitachi

 

[D1511]

I had my first close look at 001 and 003 today in Crewe where it stopped on plat 6 for a bit. I noticed that there are snagging stickers attached, which are bits of tape with notes of defects! Notes included Excess residue around window seal - check, Paint chips around camera unit etc. Seats and tables in a couple of carriages were still wrapped.
I also spotted what I assume was the monitoring equipment......some wires covered in blue electrical tape from the nose running along the fuselage at chassis level and then entering the first door. I'm sure many are aware of these details, but some may not be, so I thought I'd share.

 

[RailWonderer]

So in theory we could see them going to Carlisle on any workings that terminate there, either as booked or in times of disruption providing they are crude by Preston


Should imagine the non tilt running on the North wcml would see them lose maybe 15 or 20 minutes as happens when you get the odd random voyager in particular who's tilt mechanism isn't working properly what is being worked in service in order to get back to Central rivers for attention from a nice big fitters even bigger hammer

Most 125mph sections north of Crewe do not require tilt, which is why 397s can run at 125mph on most of them without losing time on Pendolinos.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Most 125mph sections north of Crewe do not require tilt, which is why 397s can run at 125mph on most of them without losing time on Pendolinos.

I'm pretty sure there aren't any non-tilt 125 areas on the WCML North of Crewe, with only Rugby - Coventry and Wolverhampton - Stafford being 125mph without tilt. (looking at OpenRailwayMap for this but it's been discussed in the past as well)

 

[TheHovisKid]

Is the point being made that the first two sets fully reliveried had the doors against the light background in Avanti's dark greenery blue colour, while later sets had them left in dark grey as when repainted by Virgin.
The doors on the dark body colour (cab ends excepted as not public) are white in both cases.

The contrasting colour wasn't in contention, just what shade that was.

 

[hexagon789]

Most 125mph sections north of Crewe do not require tilt, which is why 397s can run at 125mph on most of them without losing time on Pendolinos.

I'm pretty sure there aren't any non-tilt 125 areas on the WCML North of Crewe, with only Rugby - Coventry and Wolverhampton - Stafford being 125mph without tilt. (looking at OpenRailwayMap for this but it's been discussed in the past as well)

As @pokemonsuper9 says, there is no 125mph running without tilt north of Crewe, with the only such sections on the WCML and associated branches being Wolverhampton/Stafford and Coventry/Rugby both with dual signed MU and EPS 125 sections.

The 397s are timetabled slower than 390s, Preston to Lancaster is timed 1 min slower for 397s for example and it's EPS 125mph continuously for about 80% of the 20.75mi.

 

[Halish Railway]

Its worth noting is that there are quite a few sections of track north of Crewe that are geometrically capable of speeds in excess of 110mph without tilt but are only signposted for 110mph at most, although much of the way from Carlisle to Gretna Junction is straight but is limited to 100mph even for tilting trains, presumably due to the unstable formation caused by the Marshland by the Solway.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Most 125mph sections north of Crewe do not require tilt, which is why 397s can run at 125mph on most of them without losing time on Pendolinos.

That's not true at all.
The route is signed 110PS/125EPS, and non-tilt 397s have to use 110PS.
397s do lose time over 390s on the route.

 

[RailWonderer]

That's not true at all.
The route is signed 110PS/125EPS, and non-tilt 397s have to use 110PS.
397s do lose time over 390s on the route.

I've read so many posts on here saying some sections of the WCML did not or would not in future require tilt at 125mph and that it was only north of Crewe but again, so many people saying different things it's hard to keep track. 397s are pathed at 125mph so must be using 125mph at some sections. I rode one a few days ago between Preston and Oxenholme and I'm quite sure we reached 125mph.

 

[chazi898]

Last time I went on a 397, it clocked a solid 115mph. I don't think it was timed for anything more than 110, and I don't know if they have speed-set or not, but evidently the longer smooth sections like Preston-Lancaster encourage drivers to open up a bit.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've read so many posts on here saying some sections of the WCML did not or would not in future require tilt at 125mph and that it was only north of Crewe but again, so many people saying different things it's hard to keep track. 397s are pathed at 125mph so must be using 125mph at some sections. I rode one a few days ago between Preston and Oxenholme and I'm quite sure we reached 125mph.

The upgrade allowing MU (non-tilt) speeds of 125mph on certain sections of the WCML is only planned south of Weaver Jn (to suit Avanti 80x services).
However the approval/signage has not yet been implemented, and the trains are not yet in service at that speed.
North of Weaver Jn (ie 397 territory) no MU upgrade is planned, although it is expected to be implemented for HS2 services.
To be a little provocative, the poor ride in 397s gives the impression of higher speed.
390s have a much smoother ride, partly thanks to tilt.

 

[hexagon789]

I've read so many posts on here saying some sections of the WCML did not or would not in future require tilt at 125mph and that it was only north of Crewe but again, so many people saying different things it's hard to keep track.

Presently there isn't any 125 north of Crewe without EPS/tilt.

It was mentioned of plans to change that for the classic compatible HS2 trains, as they won't tilt, but as yet nothing has come of it.

South of Crewe a new MU speed profile up to a 125mph ceiling is being developed for the Avanti 805/807s, mostly it'll be MU115/120 in what are currently EPS 125 sections but there will be some 125.

397s are pathed at 125mph so must be using 125mph at some sections. I rode one a few days ago between Preston and Oxenholme and I'm quite sure we reached 125mph.

That means nothing tbh.

158s are 90mph max, yet many timing loads for what are actually 170s are listed as Class 158 100mph.

Last time I went on a 397, it clocked a solid 115mph. I don't think it was timed for anything more than 110, and I don't know if they have speed-set or not, but evidently the longer smooth sections like Preston-Lancaster encourage drivers to open up a bit.

They have no speedset, and on another forum a TPE driver said they were a bugger to hold at the speed limit and would easily go over, so holding slightly under was usual.

On my last 397 trip, I recorded mostly 108-109 on the 110/EPS125 around Lockerbie but the GPS coverage was bad and there was a sudden 'spike' to 119 then immediately back to 107.

I'll take anything over 110 with a pinch of salt if it's purely based on digital GPS speed measuring devices/apps - they are not always accurate continuously.

To be a little provocative, the poor ride in 397s gives the impression of higher speed.

Now isn't that the truth!

 

[The Planner]

I've read so many posts on here saying some sections of the WCML did not or would not in future require tilt at 125mph and that it was only north of Crewe but again, so many people saying different things it's hard to keep track. 397s are pathed at 125mph so must be using 125mph at some sections. I rode one a few days ago between Preston and Oxenholme and I'm quite sure we reached 125mph.

They are timed slower than a 390 and at normal PS line speeds.

 

[YourMum666]

There was an 807 on test today between York and Darlington

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Last time I went on a 397, it clocked a solid 115mph. I don't think it was timed for anything more than 110, and I don't know if they have speed-set or not, but evidently the longer smooth sections like Preston-Lancaster encourage drivers to open up a bit.

Smooth? Have you been on them??

 

[hexagon789]

Smooth? Have you been on them??

I could barely keep my coffee (from the chap at Carlisle Station, not the trolley service) from spilling or splashing everywhere - I think the wheels are recycled 50p pieces and the suspension made of recovered concrete blocks...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Anyway, moving back onto Avanti’s stock, I’m guessing it’s looking good for the December timetable change? And perhaps all 805s in and remaining Voyagers out by May? 807s aren’t needed to get those gone.

I could barely keep my coffee (from the chap at Carlisle Station, not the trolley service) from spilling or splashing everywhere - I think the wheels are recycled 50p pieces and the suspension made of recovered concrete blocks...

Serves you right for not waiting for the next 390

 

[hexagon789]

Serves you right for not waiting for the next 390

TPE was £5.80, the money saved paid for my coffee!

Anyway, moving back onto Avanti’s stock, I’m guessing it’s looking good for the December timetable change? And perhaps all 805s in and remaining Voyagers out by May? 807s aren’t needed to get those gone.

Well, XC needs the extra 221s by the December 2024 timetable, so that gives an outside deadline so to speak.

Always possible the transfer happens sooner of course.

 

[800001]

There was an 807 on test today between York and Darlington

807002 out overnight, was back at Factory by 0715

 

[chazi898]

Smooth? Have you been on them??

As the start of my post implies, yes, although admittedly it was 2 years ago - I wanna go on them again over the new carstairs south east chord etc. When I said smooth, the sentence was refering to the WCML between Preston and Lancaster, which is fairly smooth, the 397 ride quality however, not amazing, isn't the worst thing ever..

 

[GWVillager]

Well, XC needs the extra 221s by the December 2024 timetable, so that gives an outside deadline so to speak.

Always possible the transfer happens sooner of course.

I know this is slightly off topic so I’ll be brief - has this been confirmed? The last I heard was that XC wasn’t getting anything for certain.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I know this is slightly off topic so I’ll be brief - has this been confirmed? The last I heard was that XC wasn’t getting anything for certain.

Yes, see thread