Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[MikeWh]

I doubt if it will be rolled out over any more of the SWR network. There is no sign of this happening at present. The rollout over the SWR network has been very limited, keeping almost entirely within the boundaries of Greater London. I cannot see anyone pushing for any extension to more of the SWR network if it means complicating ticketing by adding an afternoon peak at more stations.

Project Oval is expected to extend contactless on SWR to Reading, Farnborough, Alton and Guildford.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Project Oval is expected to extend contactless on SWR to Reading, Farnborough, Alton and Guildford.

The only further extension so far announced is the following dated 20 January 2025 for 49 more stations sometime in 2025 following the 47 stations added on 2 February 2025. No news so far on when these 49 more stations will have contactless. None of the 49 stations are run by SWR.

Simpler train travel for the South East as contactless ticketing rolls out at 47 more stations

New tap in tap out system will guarantee passengers get the best fare available at the time on the day.

www.gov.uk

Further 49 stations getting contactless ticketing in 2025
Ashtead
Aylesbury
Aylesbury Vale Parkway
Baldock (new)
Box Hill and Westhumble
Billericay
Bishop’s Stortford
Chelmsford
Dorking (Main)
Dormans
East Grinstead
Great Missenden
Harlington
Harlow Mill
Harlow Town
Hatfield Peverel
Hitchin (new)
Hockley
Hurst Green
Ingatestone
Knebworth
Leagrave
Leatherhead
Letchworth Garden City (new)
Lingfield
Little Kimble
Luton
Monks Risborough
Oxted
Princes Risborough
Prittlewell
Rayleigh
Reigate
Rochford
Roydon
Sawbridgeworth
Saunderton
Southend Airport
Southend Victoria
Stansted Airport
Stansted Mountfitchet
Stevenage (new)
Stoke Mandeville
Watton-at-Stone
Welwyn North
Wendover
Wickford
Witham
Woldingham

 

[MikeWh]

The only further extension so far announced is the following dated 20 January 2025 for 49 more stations sometime in 2025 following the 47 stations added on 2 February 2025. No news so far on when these 49 more stations will have contactless.

Yes, that's the planned next phase. The full rollout is included on a map on the first post of this thread. It may not be completely up to date, but there are definitely supposed to be more stations beyond the next 49.

 

[JonathanH]

I cannot see anyone pushing for any extension to more of the SWR network if it means complicating ticketing by adding an afternoon peak at more stations.

Remember that there are winners as well as losers, and people for whom things are no change but more convenient.

The commuter who travels before 0630 and returns after 1900 sees a very welcome reduction in their fare. The commuter who travels between 0630 and 0930 but returns before 1600 sees a slightly lower reduction. The commuter travelling peak in both directions gets more convenience and no change in fare.

There will continue to be clamour for the extension of Contactless, because those users are much more numerous than off-peak travellers caught by an afternoon peak.

 

[jon81uk]

means complicating ticketing by adding an afternoon peak at more stations.

It doesn't complicate it for most commuters who are currently buying anytime return tickets because they need to be at their job in central London before 09.30. If those people switch to contactless (which will likely be singles set at half the current return) their fare would be exactly the same as it is now. But if they are able to return home after 19.00 or before 16.00 then they might save money because the two contactless singles add up to less than a current anytime return.

 

[crablab]

they might save money because the two contactless singles add up to less than a current anytime return.

Until they need to make a DR claim, which is not an uncommon occurrence

 

[Bletchleyite]

Until they need to make a DR claim, which is not an uncommon occurrence

Delay Repay can be claimed as normal using contactless. You download the journey record from the TfL site and submit that as a "ticket".

 

[JonathanH]

Until they need to make a DR claim, which is not an uncommon occurrence

Delay Repay can be claimed as normal using contactless. You download the journey record from the TfL site and submit that as a "ticket".

For a delay incurred during the journey it is actually easier to make a delay repay claim on Contactless because you have evidence of the travel times. Obviously less easy if you turn up and find there is no train to touch in for, but in that instance you haven't committed to the journey yet anyway

 

[jon81uk]

For a delay incurred during the journey it is actually easier to make a delay repay claim on Contactless because you have evidence of the travel times. Obviously less easy if you turn up and find there is no train to touch in for, but in that instance you haven't committed to the journey yet anyway

I guess that would be the only thing is to make sure you do tap in in time for the train you would have caught to make the delay repay case clear.
For example if you are planning to get the 17.52 train, arrive at the station at 17.45 and see there is a 25 minute delay on the screen, it is likely still better to tap in at 17.48 as if you were catching the train at 17.52. Rather than tapping in at 18.10 and then getting on the delayed train at 18.17 and it not being clear you were intending to catch the delayed service.

I think they should still pay out the delay repay if you travel on the late service, but I can see it being argued you never intended to catch that one.

 

[crablab]

Delay Repay can be claimed as normal using contactless. You download the journey record from the TfL site and submit that as a "ticket".

This was not my point.

a) EL uses 'legacy DR' - not DR15 or DR30
b) If you have two singles, rather than a return, the value of your DR claim is substantially reduced (ie. halved)
c) There are disputes about whether, with contactless, you can claim for a journey you intended to make but didn't tap in for at the time (due to the delay) - see recent threads on this topic (not involving TfL)

 

[jon81uk]

This was not my point.

a) EL uses 'legacy DR' - not DR15 or DR30
b) If you have two singles, rather than a return, the value of your DR claim is substantially reduced (ie. halved)
c) There are disputes about whether, with contactless, you can claim for a journey you intended to make but didn't tap in for at the time (due to the delay) - see recent threads on this topic (not involving TfL)

A) Why is the Elizabeth Line relevant? The fact TfL doesn’t want to pay out as easily on their rail services doesn’t mean other operators won’t

B) fortunately delays of over two hours where you would get both legs of the return repaid are rare on commuter services, but yes they should address this really

C) this feels the bigger issue. Of course if you abandon your journey without tapping in you haven’t spent anything so it’s broadly good, excluding those two hour delays as above. But what if you leave to avoid the delay and come back in an hours time then tap in to catch a train, will there be arguments.
But then if there delays and I have my normal anytime day return I often don’t scan the barcode until I’m about to board either, the only difference is I bought the ticket in the morning.

 

[crablab]

A) Why is the Elizabeth Line relevant? The fact TfL doesn’t want to pay out as easily on their rail services doesn’t mean other operators won’t

Apologies; I conflated the two parallel discussions about Oval
Hopefully it makes more sense in the context of the EL route.

I often don’t scan the barcode until I’m about to board either, the only difference is I bought the ticket in the morning.

The difference is you have the ticket already, whereas you haven't technically created a contract for the journey until you've tapped in at the gateline.
I would put it in the 'grey area' category; I can see the arguments both ways.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, please delete if it has, but the BBC are reporting that LNR have corrected the system so that contactless journeys are charged correctly:

London Northwestern Railway contactless customers undercharged

The undercharging had been happening since February but was corrected on Sunday, a train company says.

www.bbc.co.uk

A train company has apologised after some customers who made contactless payments were undercharged for up to four months.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On one of the "anti WMT" FB commuter groups it's been suggested that journeys from Watford Junction have been undercharged for far, far longer than that, i.e. right back to implementation there, which I believe is a few years now?

 

[akm]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, please delete if it has, but the BBC are reporting that LNR have corrected the system so that contactless journeys are charged correctly:

London Northwestern Railway contactless customers undercharged

The undercharging had been happening since February but was corrected on Sunday, a train company says.

www.bbc.co.uk

A train company has apologised after some customers who made contactless payments were undercharged for up to four months.

Nice to see the BBC silently correcting the story from the earlier version that said "some customers were overcharged since February"... not a substantive difference then (!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reports on the aforementioned commuter Facebook group that yesterday Watford Junction passengers were once again being undercharged, with a peak cap of around £18 rather than around £32. Sounds like they haven't quite fixed it.

 

[Trainbike46]

Reports on the aforementioned commuter Facebook group that yesterday Watford Junction passengers were once again being undercharged, with a peak cap of around £18 rather than around £32. Sounds like they haven't quite fixed it.

Getting your travel for cheaper seems like a bonus? Am I missing something?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Getting your travel for cheaper seems like a bonus? Am I missing something?

It's quite a hit when it goes back up to what it should be, that's what people are complaining about. Also people from Berko are whinging about their cap being correct when Watford's isn't, i.e. others are paying less but they aren't.

What a mess.

 

[A S Leib]

It's easier to believe that some people are or might be overcharged if others are undercharged rather than if all fares are correct.

 

[Hadders]

Remember that with Watford the peak times are different, Euston to Watford has no morning. Watford Junction to Euston has no afternoon peak.

So people could be getting confused because of this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Remember that with Watford the peak times are different, Euston to Watford has no morning. Watford Junction to Euston has no afternoon peak.

So people could be getting confused because of this.

£18.70 is being quoted as what (at least some) Watford passengers are being capped at, which isn't the off peak cap either (that's £24.10), nor is it (I think) the Railcard discounted cap on Oyster which would be £16.something.

 

[MikeWh]

Thanks to @miklcct for spotting this earlier. The WMT problem at Leighton Buzzard was a ridiculously cheap extension fare (the ones they don't publicise) to boundary of zone 2. This meant that a peak single to a zone 1 Underground beyond Euston was being capped at zone 1-2 + the £4.15 extension fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks to @miklcct for spotting this earlier. The WMT problem at Leighton Buzzard was a ridiculously cheap extension fare (the ones they don't publicise) to boundary of zone 2. This meant that a peak single to a zone 1 Underground beyond Euston was being capped at zone 1-2 + the £4.15 extension fare.

How did we end up with these extensions set so low like this? The paper BZ2-Leighton Buzzard fare is £19.60 peak, £10.90 off peak which is a bit more sensible!

 

[MikeWh]

How did we end up with these extensions set so low like this? The paper BZ2-Leighton Buzzard fare is £19.60 peak, £10.90 off peak which is a bit more sensible!

I'd imagine that kind of question has been floating around the WMT fare setting department since mid March.