Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[hkstudent]

Thanks. I will therefore assume that the other TOCs have a similar agreement so there is no conflict? (famous last words....)

Most TOCs joined by 2010s into London Travelcard zones 1-6, and to agree to fit in the stations into respective zones when the TOC feels fit.

 

[SWT_USER]

I have skimmed through the thread so apologies if I have missed it - when is the first phase of this actually due to happen now?

As an aside looking at the map on the first page, Ashford and Staines were really short changed by not being in zone 6! Is this a legacy of SWT's reluctance to join the Oyster scheme initially?

 

[Watershed]

I have skimmed through the thread so apologies if I have missed it - when is the first phase of this actually due to happen now?

As an aside looking at the map on the first page, Ashford and Staines were really short changed by not being in zone 6! Is this a legacy of SWT's reluctance to join the Oyster scheme initially?

Ashford and Staines aren't in Greater London and have never been in the Travelcard Zones. None of SWR/T's network outside the Zones is in the Oyster/contactless area of validity, other than the extension to Epsom.

 

[Fazaar1889]

I have also just skimmed so apologies if I missed it as well but when they say contactless is expanding to outside London, will the new stations accept oyster or will it only be debit/credit card like at reading?

Also, how would it work if tap in but leave the zone on the train. Eg, tap in on Waterloo and go down the swml, but instead of coming off at Woking, you leave much further onwards... How much will they charge? Apologies if this has already been answered

 

[jon0844]

Since I wrote what I did last week, it seems the talk of getting rid of return tickets suggests that we may indeed be moving towards a single single (!) fare for a lot of routes in the future.

 

[C2K]

TfL expanding their claws further out. What could possibly go wrong eh.

With such an efficiently run, cash rich, debt free organisation dictating the field to those with no desire or intent to visit London any time soon. The chance to be a part of TfL industrial action in Kent, Surrey or Sussex as well as your own TOC covering most of your area. Such an exciting prospect.

I for one welcome our new leaders and take exception to any assertion that I'm being a sarcastic sod

 

[JonathanH]

TfL expanding their claws further out. What could possibly go wrong eh.

With such an efficiently run, cash rich, debt free organisation dictating the field to those with no desire or intent to visit London any time soon. The chance to be a part of TfL industrial action in Kent, Surrey or Sussex as well as your own TOC covering most of your area. Such an exciting prospect.

I for one welcome our new leaders and take exception to any assertion that I'm being a sarcastic sod

This is not TfL expanding their claws.

This is the DfT working on a project which is directed by government policy. TfL are the only organisation who can deliver it on the DfT's behalf.

There is significant public support for the expansion of Contactless to a wider area, particularly amongst commuters.

 

[matt_world2004]

TfL expanding their claws further out. What could possibly go wrong eh.

With such an efficiently run, cash rich, debt free organisation dictating the field to those with no desire or intent to visit London any time soon. The chance to be a part of TfL industrial action in Kent, Surrey or Sussex as well as your own TOC covering most of your area. Such an exciting prospect.

I for one welcome our new leaders and take exception to any assertion that I'm being a sarcastic sod

How will industrial action on tfl services effect the ability to use contactless on southeastern services? Or southern or great Northern

 

[jon0844]

How will industrial action on tfl services effect the ability to use contactless on southeastern services? Or southern or great Northern

I can't see it making any difference, as I am sure the part of TfL that manages the gatelines and the data for travel (to bill users) will be a separate part of the organisation.

 

[jnjkerbin]

I have skimmed through the thread so apologies if I have missed it - when is the first phase of this actually due to happen now?

Supposedly there'll be mention of this, along with the scrapping of return tickets, in Mark Harper's speech today, so there may be an updated schedule forthcoming.

 

[Mojo]

The chance to be a part of TfL industrial action in Kent, Surrey or Sussex as well as your own TOC covering most of your area. Such an exciting prospect.

When have TfL staff ever gone on strike? The only example I can think of from recent times is the strike affecting infrastructure operating and maintenance staff on the Central operating section of Crossrail, which wouldn’t be applicable in this case

 

[cav1975]

Is it likely that the same railcard could be applied to more than one payment/Oyster card?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Is it likely that the same railcard could be applied to more than one payment/Oyster card?

Given that the only information entered is that it's a Railcard and the expiry date (theoretically the Railcard number as well) that's been happening for years.

Can't see it changing that much when/if they manage to roll it out for CPAY as part of Oval.

 

[43066]

With such an efficiently run, cash rich, debt free organisation dictating the field to those with no desire or intent to visit London any time soon. The chance to be a part of TfL industrial action in Kent, Surrey or Sussex as well as your own TOC covering most of your area. Such an exciting prospect.

It isn’t TfL who have been having significant industrial action recently…

 

[akm]

I have also just skimmed so apologies if I missed it as well but when they say contactless is expanding to outside London, will the new stations accept oyster or will it only be debit/credit card like at reading?

Also, how would it work if tap in but leave the zone on the train. Eg, tap in on Waterloo and go down the swml, but instead of coming off at Woking, you leave much further onwards... How much will they charge? Apologies if this has already been answered

Contactless Payment Card only, not Oyster.

And, going beyond the area of Contactless validity will I imagine work the same way it does at the moment - you can tap in at Victoria (with Oyster or Contactless), get a train to Brighton (neither Oyster nor Contactless accepted), and get Penalty Fared. Or maybe sold a ticket by a sympathetic member of staff.

 

[ar10642]

OK, but where do you draw the line? Are fares in London, which are obviously widely accepted, going to start having reductions for railcards at peak times or is there going to be a cliff edge where railcard discounts are given from stations outside Zone 6 but not elsewhere?

We know there will be winners and losers from the expansion of Contactless PAYG and that the Treasury will only sign off on a plan that is revenue neutral or better.

Who would be the winners though? If you're outside zone 6 and your costs are going up by 50% you're a loser and Londoners already have contactless.

People are always calling for simplicity and properly structured fares with fewer anomalies. This does represent an opportunity to do that.

I don't know if they are really, they want the *cheapest ticket* to be simpler to buy without special knowledge. They don't want to pay loads more in the name of "simplicity".

 

[telstarbox]

It would be more convenient - from my station just outside the Zones you have to buy paper tickets to London unless you use The Key. If railcard discounts are available it will be ideal and contactless would save a few minutes on each journey.

 

[Richardr]

Contactless here was sold as for convenience, not necessarily the best price.

Obviously, the further it extends, the more convenient it is.

 

[ar10642]

Contactless here was sold as for convenience, not necessarily the best price.

Obviously, the further it extends, the more convenient it is.

Yes, but the further it extends, the more people will be paying and surely there is only so much people will pay for the convenience, especially when we have e-tickets now.

 

[Meerkat]

Contactless here was sold as for convenience, not necessarily the best price.

Obviously, the further it extends, the more convenient it is.

Yes and no.
Contactless in London is pretty stress free as you know the maximum daily cap is relatively trivial.
From way out in the outer suburbs are you going to be happy to just tap without knowing how much it could go wrong?

 

[jon0844]

People clearly are happy to just tap without any idea of what they're going to be charged. As I said before, these are probably the people who will moan about fare increases, but have voluntarily chosen to pay more for convenience.

It's their choice, and I think this sort of thing will be why any trials or surveys on changes to ticketing will always be positive because people like simplicity over anything else. That'll be why the Luton DART is costing £9.80 return!!

 

[ess]

There needs to be a way for non-English speakers to get refunds when overcharged etc similar to calling TfL. Does TfL have a way to request a refund online already?

 

[Meerkat]

People clearly are happy to just tap without any idea of what they're going to be charged. As I said before, these are probably the people who will moan about fare increases, but have voluntarily chosen to pay more for convenience.

It's their choice, and I think this sort of thing will be why any trials or surveys on changes to ticketing will always be positive because people like simplicity over anything else. That'll be why the Luton DART is costing £9.80 return!!

Are they? In London where the maximum is defined as the day travelcard maybe, but is anyone tapping from distances where it could be a lot more?

 

[JonathanH]

Are they? In London where the maximum is defined as the day travelcard maybe, but is anyone tapping from distances where it could be a lot more?

Even outside London, the maximum that can be charged is the day travelcard rate (subject to any incomplete journeys). It is just that the day travelcard rate is higher, the further out you go.

 

[ShadowKnight]

Perhaps this will coincide with the replacement oyster card system? I think that is something that is also in the works?

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps this will coincide with the replacement oyster card system? I think that is something that is also in the works?

I think that got set back by TfL working on Project Oval.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...less-payment-cards.231684/page-2#post-5969336
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ures-in-tfl-revenue-collection-tender.239540/

 

[ShadowKnight]

I suppose the new oyster could piggyback off project oval and be a regional (not just London) card system in the project oval area

 

[Fazaar1889]

Contactless Payment Card only, not Oyster.

And, going beyond the area of Contactless validity will I imagine work the same way it does at the moment - you can tap in at Victoria (with Oyster or Contactless), get a train to Brighton (neither Oyster nor Contactless accepted), and get Penalty Fared. Or maybe sold a ticket by a sympathetic member of staff.

Ah that makes sense thanks

Is there a time line for events? 2022 has already passed and idk which stations have been added...

 

[mirodo]

TfL need to get their act together re contactless cards. In December, I tried to add an additional card to my account, but couldn't do so because the expiry year is 2032, and the web form only allowed me to select a value up to 2031. I logged it with TfL, and got a useless response back telling me that currently I could only add cards up to 2031 (yes, I know, that's what I told you!), and to try another card instead.

I can now add the card as they have added 2032 to their web form, but the card shows as "expired". TfL's response was to thank me for my web form about a refund (????), and advised me to "remove the card and re-add it to see if it will jolt the journey history to re-appear".

Do they even read the support requests they receive, or just send a random response which bears no relation whatsoever to the issue raised?

 

[JaJaWa]

Ah that makes sense thanks

Is there a time line for events? 2022 has already passed and idk which stations have been added...

There have been a few such as the GWR branches