Proposed Woodhead Tunnel?

[johnnychips]

As one resident in that general area, I am well aware of local history historical proposals, but my reference did in fact refer to the continuation of the A34 Cheadle Royal to Wilmslow South new road at the roundabout connection (why oh why not a flyover with slip road access and egress) to the new Wilmslow South to Nether Alderley continuation of that self-same A34 new routing.

I know exactly what and where you mean Paul!

 

[HSTEd]

If you were going to build some sort of "Woodhead Base Tunnel" you could do it all in a single bore if you used one of the enormous TBMs they have available these days, like the one they used in Shanghai, which apparently is not the largest that has been built now.

2 lanes each way and two railway tracks might fit in a single bore with some of the monster TBMs they have now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If you were going to build some sort of "Woodhead Base Tunnel" you could do it all in a single bore if you used one of the enormous TBMs they have available these days, like the one they used in Shanghai, which apparently is not the largest that has been built now......2 lanes each way and two railway tracks might fit in a single bore with some of the monster TBMs they have now.

I should imagine that the removed spoil from that project of the assumed tunnel length and the tunnel bore diameter size you state in your posting above would be of a very sizable tonnage. Would there be a programme of freight train movements to dispose of this spoil and where would the likely destination be to where this may be taken ?

 

[HSTEd]

I should imagine that the removed spoil from that project of the assumed length and the tunnel bore diameter size you state in your posting above would be of a very sizable tonnage. Would there be a programme of freight train movements to dispose of this spoil and where would the likely destination be to where this may be taken ?

One would assume there would be freight train movements, as I can't think of any other way to remove that much spoil....

WOuld just dump it into a pound in the Irish sea and build an artificial island, its probably the cheapest option.

 

[IanD]

One would assume there would be freight train movements, as I can't think of any other way to remove that much spoil....

WOuld just dump it into a pound in the Irish sea and build an artificial island, its probably the cheapest option.

Build an artificial islland in the Thames estuary then build an airport on it. Two problems solved in one.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

If BR had not had been so stupid in closing the Woodhead Line then we would not be having this news story been published

 

[HSTEd]

If BR had not had been so stupid in closing the Woodhead Line then we would not be having this news story been published

Yes, because maintaining two routes between Manchester and Sheffield when they only had sufficient traffic to support one would have been an eminently sensible thing to do.

(They were required to keep Hope Valley open by the Government for social reasons and the Hope valley is not full even today).

 

[185]

Dig down and cut and cover! The entire Woodhead Pass road

 

[WelshZ]

If only the government did not do a U-Turn on closing the hope valley, The Woodhead would still be open today albeit as a 25kv line or more likely de-electrified.

 

[sprinterguy]

If only the government did not do a U-Turn on closing the hope valley, The Woodhead would still be open today albeit as a 25kv line or more likely de-electrified.

And the communities of north Derbyshire would be even more poorly served by rail than they already are (Given that there are no communities of real consequence on the Woodhead route between Hadfield and (very near) Penistone, both of which retain passenger services)!

There are a number of excellent reasons why the Hope Valley route was retained over the Woodhead one, and I am thankful for them in ensuring that it is still with us today.

 

[johnnychips]

And the communities of north Derbyshire would be even more poorly served by rail than they already are (Given that there are no communities of real consequence on the Woodhead route between Hadfield and (very near) Penistone, both of which retain passenger services)!

There are a number of excellent reasons why the Hope Valley route was retained over the Woodhead one, and I am thankful for them in ensuring that it is still with us today.

Agreed. The building of the chord at Hazel Grove was a masterstroke, linking Stockport to Sheffield.

A 'cut and cover' road or railway up Longdendale would be a massive engineering project, causing congestion and environmental damage, let alone the cost. Just build the Mottram/Hollingworth/Tintwistle by-pass.

Advocates of reopening the railway between Hadfield and Woodhead (or Rowsley-Bakewell-Cheedale for that matter) would find a lot of opposition from the new users of those routes, namely walkers, cyclists and equestrians.

 

[tbtc]

(They were required to keep Hope Valley open by the Government for social reasons and the Hope valley is not full even today).

The Hope Valley route isn't full up?

How come the local service is only a bi-hourly DMU but increased to an hourly one at weekends when there's no/less freight around (because the line is so full that there's no space for the DMUs to be hourly during the week)?

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Hope Valley route isn't full up?

How come the local service is only a bi-hourly DMU but increased to an hourly one at weekends when there's no/less freight around (because the line is so full that there's no space for the DMUs to be hourly during the week)?

Yep i was thinking that tbtc. Although, with a signalling upgrade to include 4 aspect (or is it 3 aspect i get confused what its name is, the one with double yellows) and maybe one or two passing loops you could fit an awful lot more stuff down the line. Sat on Edale station you notice big gaps.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yep i was thinking that tbtc. Although, with a signalling upgrade to include 4 aspect (or is it 3 aspect i get confused what its name is, the one with double yellows) and maybe one or two passing loops you could fit an awful lot more stuff down the line. Sat on Edale station you notice big gaps.

Four aspect signalling is the type with double yellows.

 

[tbtc]

Yep i was thinking that tbtc. Although, with a signalling upgrade to include 4 aspect (or is it 3 aspect i get confused what its name is, the one with double yellows) and maybe one or two passing loops you could fit an awful lot more stuff down the line. Sat on Edale station you notice big gaps.

Hopefully the proposals will make a big difference (especially a second platform at Dore!), but as things stand the Hope Valley line is basically full - hence Sheffield - Manchester being a poor relation to Leeds - Manchester and the Norwich - Liverpool service having to take a fifteen (?) minute detour along the Sheaf Valley into Sheffield and back out again because there's no space for a separate Nottingham - Sheffield and Sheffield - Manchester service which would allow the long distance Norwich - Liverpool to be significantly sped up.

As for Woodhead, the case for it is made a lot harder by the issue of a Sheffield station - you'd need to re-open Victoria (or build a new one at Nunnery Square), which would mean Sheffield - Manchester trains leaving from two stations in Sheffield - the whole thing has drawbacks as well as positives.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah, there are plenty of very useful upgrades of the Hope Valley line, the most valuable of which seem to be in hand now, that will do a great deal to increase capacity on the route before we have to consider reopening the Woodhead route.

 

[johnnychips]

Aren't there proposed upgrades in the future having one service an hour using the Dore chord while still retaining or enhancing the Sheff-Man service? It really is poor that there isn't a direct Man-Derby service (is it actually quicker changing at Stoke)?

I'm sure there was a thread on this, but I can't find it.

 

[boing_uk]

Given that National Grid have carried out substantial repairs to the "new" tunnel, I think it is only right that they should be compensated by a "new" tunnel in the old bores.

Depending on what state the old tunnels are in, it is technically possible to re-line them with either pre-cast units and filling in the void between them and the old lining with grout, or shotcrete the existing tunnel after suitable structural repairs.

Moving the new cables out of the new tunnel isnt a show stopper for re-using the new tunnel for rail purposes - it just means removing the 400kV plant out again, removing the concrete slab and all the other bits NG have put in there. Might want to keep the tunnel lighting though!

I dont see what all the fuss is about really. Its not like there are any firm proposals for a rail line in at least the next 15 years, by which point the "new" NG stuff will be approaching half-way through its design life anyway.

 

[johnnychips]

Agreed. The best thing that the National Grid (or whatever it's called now) could do, but will not as they are a private company, would be to bury the electric wires running up Longdendale to enhance the view. The great A Wainwright described Longdendale as 'a mess', though when he wrote his Pennine Way guide in the 60s there were pylons and trains.

 

[boing_uk]

I dont suppose he would be too happy to learn that this has been named after him then...

 

[johnnychips]

I dont suppose he would be too happy to learn that this has been named after him then...

That's brilliant...considering he managed to do all his Lakeland guides by bus. However in 1968ish, he still had to use his friends' cars to do the Pennine Way Companion. So I think he might be twitching, rather than revolving in his grave.

I've just dug out his Pennine Way Companion. It says:

The valley at its foot, Longdendale [...] is an ugly desolation of telegraph poles, electrified railway lines, waterworks and pylons. The rhododendron bushes, planted to add beauty to the scene, fail to do so. Nothing could. [...] Down to civilisation - and what a mess it is!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Aren't there proposed upgrades in the future having one service an hour using the Dore chord while still retaining or enhancing the Sheff-Man service?

Was in not in The Northern Hub documentation that a mention was made of the upgrading of single track to double track at Dore Junction and a second platform being built at Dore & Totley station to take advantage of this double track?