Public Poll - Discussion of your vote

[Jordy]

A number of people have expressed their concern of people being allowed to discuss/reveal which photo they have voted for.

Please vote in the poll, comments also welcome

Cheers

Jordy

 

[Phoenix]

Honestly I would say keep it as it is because....

A) It gives people an idea if they are going to win.
B) Provides some good photographic discussion by all which doesn't happen all to often.
C) If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

[Jordy]

Discussion of the photos would not be banned under this, saying "I vote for number x" would be.

 

[90019]

I think disussion of what people think of the photos is a good thing, but I think that when you get lots of people saying they're voting for one photo, like just a load of people posting the number and nothing else it can cause a sheep effect, making it more likely that someone who sees that will vote for the same thing because there is a fairly strong chance, in my opinion, that they will be influenced by the votes of others.

My 1.4p

 

[ladysue]

I think that discussion of the photos can be a double edged sword. Sometimes it can be useful and other times it can discourage people from entering. I dont think it is any help to know in advance if you are likely to win. After all its only a week until you know the result.I do think there is a strong sheep effect in voting.

 

[David]

I would also be interested to know how many people are voting for traction as to overall quality of the photos, as some weeks, the voting does become a bit skewed if certain traction is shown.

Anyway, getting back to the main subject. Saying who you have voted for will encourage others to do the same so should be banned. However, discussion about photos is fine (in my opinion) as long as the discussion is constructive.

 

[Jordy]

Discussion about photos is fine (in my opinion) as long as the discussion is constructive.

No intention of stopping that!

 

[Phoenix]

No intention of stopping that!

The problem here Jordy is that the two go hand in hand so if you were to stop people saying exactly which they voted for they wouldn't be able to discuss either due to the fact that for instances if I said.

"Well number three is a cracking shot but the other aren't quite as good"

It would be pretty obvious as to who I was voting for.
I understand you and the rest of the mods may be able to decide for yourselves if such a situation arose but personally I think it will lead to this proposed law being broken many times weekly.

I know other wish it to be this way but honest I feel they need to go back to the drawing board as this won't sit well with most of the serious photographers on this forum.

 

[90019]

I think the point is that discussion is fine, even if it does kinda give away what you're voting for, but not just someone posting "3" and nothing else.

 

[Richmond]

As a professional photographer I never enter the competition on this forum because of the discussion and I voted for this... comments. Also find that forum based competitions are based not on the photo quality but the traction or place the photograph is taken so more of a picture of the week rather than a photo competition.

Only an Idea..........
Moving it forward, maybe select a judging panel who judge the photos based on the catergory, technique, ligthing etc and award the winner with a guest appearance on the judging panel for the next week and selects the next catergory.

 

[Gizmogle]

Surely if you ban saying "I vote for number 1." then people are just going to say things like "Number 1 is a stunning photo in my opinion." or something like that. It'll still be obvious who is voting for which photo.

Although, I don't know why you ever set the poll to hidden, I always liked seeing which photos (especially my own) were doing well through the week.

 

[minette]

The problem here Jordy is that the two go hand in hand so if you were to stop people saying exactly which they voted for they wouldn't be able to discuss either due to the fact that for instances if I said.

"Well number three is a cracking shot but the other aren't quite as good"

It would be pretty obvious as to who I was voting for.
I understand you and the rest of the mods may be able to decide for yourselves if such a situation arose but personally I think it will lead to this proposed law being broken many times weekly.

I know other wish it to be this way but honest I feel they need to go back to the drawing board as this won't sit well with most of the serious photographers on this forum.

The problem at the moment is that people are just giving a number, with no explanation. A critique of the other pictures would be useful - especially to me, as a newbie who rarely gets a vote I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong! All I know at the moment is that you as a group don't like what I'm taking. Very disheartening:cry:

 

[eezypeazy]

All I know at the moment is that you as a group don't like what I'm taking. Very disheartening:cry:

Not necessarily, minette. All the results mean is that a relatively small group of people think, for whatever reason, that some photographs are better than others - not that they don't like some of them!

I've never won this competition, but it doesn't stop my trying. The competititon actually encouraged me to take more railway photography - something that I've done very little of in the past. And yes, if I'm honest, in my attempts to win, I've started entering shots which I think will appeal to the people on this forum, rather than just shots that I find nice.

Interestingly, although I've never won once, the pdf calendar that I put together in December has been downloaded 376 times so far - which is probably more than the sum total of the votes I've received in this competition in three years!

But back to the subject of this poll, and this discussion. I'm not in favour of Richmond's suggestion of appointing some rolling panel of judges - for me, this competition is all about being judged by your peers. I wonder, though, if there is some merit in holding back all discussion of the entries until after the result is announced? In that way, we could have a civilised discussion of why we voted for what, subject matter, composition, lighting, exposure - anything! - without in any way influencing the result.

Which is why I haven't voted in this poll.

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[D306]

Minette, I've been on this forum a while and enter the POTW comps. I rarely get any votes. it's something that you'd get used to. I was surprised though on comp 301 when I came joint second

 

[Phoenix]

The problem at the moment is that people are just giving a number, with no explanation. A critique of the other pictures would be useful - especially to me, as a newbie who rarely gets a vote I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong! All I know at the moment is that you as a group don't like what I'm taking. Very disheartening:cry:

To be honest with the POTW comp it is pot luck as the voting it'self is somewhat sporadic but yeah I defiantly agree that people should add more than just the number they voted for cause unless they either.

A) Are saying they voted for my shot.
B) Or are giving a good comment.

I actually don't care who they voted for.

Personally though it can't solved through a new rule cause it's down to laziness and arrogance of members but then again I'm about to cause some dislike for me which isn't new for me.

 

[BJMorley]

Well, I can't discuss the answer as it might intimidate everyone who answered "Yes". :P :P

 

[curly42]

I totally agree with eezypeazy - let's have plenty of discussion - but after the competition result is announced.I don't know why people feel the need to post something along the lines of "I voted for number x" - I really couldn't care less who they voted for - why do they feel the need to tell everyone ??
Yes,I think there is an element of voting for traction,and also a sheep effect - could be wrong,who knows for sure ??
Also,I find that posting something like "Has to be number 1" is insulting to the other entries.Having said that,no offence to this weeks number 1,it was just an example.
Let's keep the results secret until revealed on the Sunday.

 

[Gizmogle]

...as a newbie who rarely gets a vote I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong! All I know at the moment is that you as a group don't like what I'm taking. Very disheartening:cry:

See, I wouldn't want to upset anyone by saying that their photo is bad. Even if it is in a constructive way.

I'd say that you should either ask at the end of the competition what you could improve about your entry, or look a the winning entry and see what it has that your photo doesn't and try to improve for next week.

 

[Jordy]

Point taken, if we are to do this, then discussion of the photos must be stopped until after the competition has finished.

 

[mbonwick]

I would say, ban statements such as "I vote for x" or "x is clearly the best", but allow statements that are more detailed eg. "x is better than y as y is over exposed and x has it just right etc"

 

[minette]

See, I wouldn't want to upset anyone by saying that their photo is bad. Even if it is in a constructive way.

I'd say that you should either ask at the end of the competition what you could improve about your entry, or look a the winning entry and see what it has that your photo doesn't and try to improve for next week.

Mmm - I see your point, but from my point of view, I'm entering (in my opinion) the best photo I've got that I think fits the subject. Then I see other people's photos and form my own opinions about them (good and bad) and vote accordingly. But I still don't know where I personally am going wrong, and I've noticed that once the voting is over, that thread doesn't tend to be looked at again, so I feel it's a bit of a waste of time posting questions on there as it will either be ignored, or will start an argument - which is not what I'm after, I'd like honest opinions including criticism to improve my photography.
Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough and can't put myself in another photographer's position to see how I'd take their shot, but I'm fairly new to "proper" photography - I've only just (in the last week) moved from the Auto setting! and need loads of advice.
Sorry to go on, but that's me...!

 

[Gizmogle]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Once the competition has ended, people don't really care anymore, as they know who has won and how their photo has done.

Maybe if you're looking for constructive criticism, you should post some of your best photos in the Photography section of the forum and ask there.

 

[curly42]

Another thought has occured to me (hey wow that's two today !!) - would it be possible to take away the number of views that each picture has had ?? Maybe that would go some way toward reducing the level of information available on each shot.

 

[Gizmogle]

I don't think that the views give too much away. Just cause it has a lot of views, doesn't mean that it's a good photo. Might just have an interesting bit of detail, or be so unbelievably bad that you need to get a closer look

 

[Techniquest]

As someone who rarely enters these days or for that matter votes, I'd compare it to an actual election.

"Who'd you vote for?"
"I voted Liberal Democrats because of X, Y, and D"

which I'd prefer to:

"Who'd you vote for?"
"I cannot say as it may influence you".

When I have voted in the past, I've posted "I came down to a choice of D, Y and Z. In the end, Y got the vote in a close call as it had G better than D and Z" or something like that. I don't care whether anyone wishes to know what I voted for, but I prefer being free to state my choice, why I voted that way and offer any constructive criticism at the same time.

I don't personally see why anyone's kicking up a fuss. However I too would like to know how much certain traction appearing influences the voting. The subject could be "Locos in full sun" and you'd get plenty of 66s, 67s, 60s, 50s, 47s and Goodness knows what. All stunning photos for a variety of reasons. Then someone enters one of a pair of EWS 37/4s that's slightly less good quality than the rest but wins by a landslide. Which would indicate a serious traction bias. Yes we all like photos of our preferred traction but this is supposed to be about the photo itself, not just the traction. The composition, the lighting, the angle and other qualities is what it's supposed to be judged on, not by the class featured. This doesn't appear to be the case very often, sadly.

I agree with minette though, I rarely enter because I never get votes for my photos anyway. That and I don't usually have a suitable photo that's in digital format. Besides, with all these kids that have DSLRs now, the rest of us that use digital compact cameras, good as they are, have no chance!

Anyway, this is all distracting me from sorting out cheap tickets for my next GC bash!

 

[90019]

Besides, with all these kids that have DSLRs now, the rest of us that use digital compact cameras, good as they are, have no chance!

I only have a digital P&S thing, and I still enter photos, I mean, I may as well, because there is a chance of getting some votes, and there's nothing to lose from it

 

[eezypeazy]

... The composition, the lighting, the angle and other qualities is what it's supposed to be judged on, not by the class featured.

I disagree. I think that most people who vote simple pick the picture that most appeals to them (for whatever reason!). They use their eyes, then vote with their hearts! For example, a technically poor picture of an unusual train or unusual working might, because of its "novelty" value, be chosen as that week's winner!

After all, this is just a bit of fun - let's keep it that way!

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[P156KWJ]

I think it's a bit of a catch 22 situation, as if you are allowed to say, people (inc. myself) see it as biased. If you ban it, you run in to complications of actually what does give it away that you've voted for it?

Personally I think it should be taken off, as I do think at the moment it is biased towards people (won't mention names) that win nearly every week because it's obvious it's taken by them and they may like that person, or because everyone else has

 

[dan_atki]

Point taken, if we are to do this, then discussion of the photos must be stopped until after the competition has finished.

It is difficult to do so but it is technologically possible to make a poll just a poll so that people can vote but not say anything (locking the thread also closes the poll) - I'll give you an outline of how I intend it could work and maybe the changes could be implemented Dependent, of course, if such changes to the competition will be needed.

Another thought has occured to me (hey wow that's two today !!) - would it be possible to take away the number of views that each picture has had ?? Maybe that would go some way toward reducing the level of information available on each shot.

Again, there is an option in Coppermine to turn these off if necessary. If there are other instances where such information is displayed then there may be an option to turn it off otherwise it would require a PHP edit.

 

[Gizmogle]

...it is biased towards people (won't mention names) that win nearly every week because it's obvious it's taken by them and they may like that person, or because everyone else has

I find that Craig tends to be one of those, and it would seem that I usually vote for his photos. This isn't intentional, his pictures are just quite often the best.

I for one always vote for my favourite picture rather than traction or photographer. I guess this isn't the case for everyone though.

I can identify alot of people just by their photos anyway