Public's misconceptions of the railway..Driving is easy... funny and aggravating..

[david_VI]

This is something i've noticed more so recently since applying for a trainee driver role. Just how much of the public know so little or have the wrong idea?

I know hairdressers aren't good examples, however on both occasions i've gone for a haircut before interviews i've heard such mind boggling things.

First hairdresser asked me what train drivers actually do? She thought trains were automatic and computer driven, claiming it can't be as hard as driving a car because trains don't have steering wheels.. But then asked "do they?".

Second hairdresser was similar, thinking train driving was quite an easy job with you not having to do much at all, being surprised when told you actually drive the train.

Another funny story I heard was from a friend of my other half. She said she spoke to the driver when he came to collect her ticket.. She actually thought the guy who walks down the carriage was the driver and the train was automatic.

Most people I talk to actually seem shocked to hear train drivers actually drive trains

Are these kinds of ideas common? Is this why people go crazy when they hear how much train drivers are paid? Because they think they don't do anything?

Anyone got any interesting stories or things people have said to them relating to the railways?

David

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I've only ever really had it in jest. When you tell people you are a train driver they are always curious to know more about your day to day though. Most people want to know what it's like so I tend to tell them that it's a bit like driving on the motorway with only a handbrake to slow you down.
I've always found people tend to think it's a cool job to have though.

 

[Wath Yard]

I think it is more people don't really care how a train gets from A - B as long as it does and have other things to worry about or be interested in than anything else.

I work in IT and at one time worked at an Investment Bank, but it didn't stop an elderly relative thinking I was a cashier!

 

[craigwilson]

I'm a chemist (as in the lab-based type), and I always get the types who think I must work in Boots or something!! :roll:

"No, that's a pharmacist..."

 

[3141]

I suspect the misconceptions david VI describes are widespread. My daughter's husband asked me, when we were on a steam-hauled train on the K&ESR before they got married, whether the driver had to steer it. I nearly ordered the wedding to be called off. Forty years ago people might have had an excuse for thinking that a train driver's job was fairly easy, because they would probably have known that driving a steam engine had been a rather complicated operation, and perhaps assumed that a diesel or electric train was simple. They don't have that excuse today. Maybe it's partly because a surprisingly high proportion of people never travel by train.

Perhaps we should pause and wonder what things we imagine we know about that actually we've got wrong. "Fly by wire" - I've often wondered how they make such a long piece of wire that it can be used to control an airliner all the way from Heathrow to New York.

 

[the sniper]

Another funny story I heard was from a friend of my other half. She said she spoke to the driver when he came to collect her ticket.. She actually thought the guy who walks down the carriage was the driver and the train was automatic.

I'm sure I've said it on this forum before but I've had this as a Guard, more than once while doing tickets. Once while doing a ticket stood at the back cab door I was complemented on my multitasking skills, what with how I was doing a ticket and driving the train. I've also had a fare dodger tell me to 'go back and drive the train', when I asked him how I had been driving the train from inside the carriage, he mulled it over but declined to answer.

I don't know if you work on the railway at the moment, but if you're just joining you'll quickly find that a large number of passengers leave their brains behind when they enter NR property.

 

[RPM]

I tend to tell them that it's a bit like driving on the motorway with only a handbrake to slow you down.

Good analogy. I like that.

I'm quite often asked if train driving is easy. I ususally reply that making it go is easy but making it stop is where the skill lies.

The thing a lot of people seem to find strange is the odd times that the shifts start and finish; things like 07.14 to 14.48
People think why the funny times? but it is simply the train departure/arrival time plus the booking on/off time.

 

[Roverman]

At least on the trains, strange times makes sense!

My sister used to work at the University of Birmingham and told me about her rota, some years ago someone 'high up' decided that the clerical and childcare staff should work a 'standard' rota and worked this out to be 8 hours 12.5 minutes per working day. This is of course frankly ridiculous as many of the customer facing offices are open from 8.30-5pm so it just doesn't work, what the staff worked out amongst themselves is that its easier to work 8hr 15 mins or maybe 8hr 30 a day, average it out across the week and simply finish early or start late one day to balance it out.

Makes you wonder who should be teaching the students sometimes

 

[455driver]

I just say yes its very easy.
How would you fancy driving a train at 100mph in freezing fog knowing there is a station you need to stop at coming up and then being able to stop it smoothly so the passengers dont give it a thought.

That usually shuts them up.

 

[RPM]

I just say yes its very easy.
How would you fancy driving a train at 100mph in freezing fog knowing there is a station you need to stop at coming up and then being able to stop it smoothly so the passengers dont give it a thought.

That usually shuts them up.

I often think that if passengers knew just how little we can see when it is dark and foggy they would be a) very scared and b) very impressed that we manage to stop at stations.

 

[dvboy]

At least on the trains, strange times makes sense!

My sister used to work at the University of Birmingham and told me about her rota, some years ago someone 'high up' decided that the clerical and childcare staff should work a 'standard' rota and worked this out to be 8 hours 12.5 minutes per working day. This is of course frankly ridiculous as many of the customer facing offices are open from 8.30-5pm so it just doesn't work, what the staff worked out amongst themselves is that its easier to work 8hr 15 mins or maybe 8hr 30 a day, average it out across the week and simply finish early or start late one day to balance it out.

Makes you wonder who should be teaching the students sometimes

My standard day is 7 hours 18 minutes for an office that's open 7-6.30 and public facing from 8-5. It's not that uncommon (I usually do 10-6 and go home early every so often).

 

[Ediswan]

I often think that if passengers knew just how little we can see when it is dark and foggy they would be a) very scared and b) very impressed that we manage to stop at stations.

I trust you to know where the stations are. It is the random stuff such as stray cows and fallen trees I sometimes worry about.

 

[455driver]

I often think that if passengers knew just how little we can see when it is dark and foggy they would be a) very scared, b) very impressed that we manage to stop at stations or c) not interested.

I love it when I lean forward to look out of the windscreen and I cant see the rails for the fog, then look at the speedo needle on the 90mph mark. then the ping of a magnet and I know exactly where I am because I am running through the route in my head, put the brake in, slow down smoothly and hit the ramp doing the exact speed I want (either 30 or 40 depending on platform length) and then stop smoothly right on the mark.
Still makes me smile.

Out of your options most of them would go for option c), because after all our job is easy, pull a lever, push a button and drinking tea. I mean how difficult can it be?

 

[transmanche]

A couple of weeks ago I was travelling from Newcastle to London and it was snowing. And that got me thinking, what's it like driving a train in the snow? I know that driving a car when it's dark and snowing heavily can be quite challenging even at 30/40mph, as the effect of the lights on the snowflakes is quite hypnotic. So if you're driving a train at 100mph+ the effect must be magnified many times.

So train drivers... how do you manage to do it?

 

[O L Leigh]

Concentration. The same in fog.

O L Leigh

 

[Dave1987]

A couple of weeks ago I was travelling from Newcastle to London and it was snowing. And that got me thinking, what's it like driving a train in the snow? I know that driving a car when it's dark and snowing heavily can be quite challenging even at 30/40mph, as the effect of the lights on the snowflakes is quite hypnotic. So if you're driving a train at 100mph+ the effect must be magnified many times.

So train drivers... how do you manage to do it?

If you are on full greens, line speed. Any cautionary aspect slow right down. Running break tests regularly. You rely on route knowledge in those conditions. But in thick fog driving a car you wouldn't do 70mph on the motorway, but when you are driving a train as long as you are on full greens you do line speed.

 

[O L Leigh]

Want to check your Rule Book on that one...? I thought it was 10mph below linespeed at speeds above 50mph.

Or have I just shown myself up?

O L Leigh

 

[Robsignals]

I have great admiration for bus and train drivers but which is the more difficult job? It's true that trains aren't steered and the driver has no control over routing which together take much of a road drivers attention. Modern trains, like road vehicles, are 'press & go' so it's only really braking accuracy that requires skill and concentration, I wonder if the most demanding aspect on express trains where there can be quite long periods with little or no driver input required is maintaining focus. Train driving can, and already is on DLR and some TfL lines, be automated though I wouldn't be happy without a person in overall control. Perhaps the Americans have got it right in calling a train driver an Engineer.

As an ex signal engineer I get really annoyed by people who assume rail signals are just like traffic lights - totally and utterly wrong. Traffic lights are a cheap and nasty rip-off of rail signals and car drivers who talk of train drivers 'running a red' are admitting to how readily they break the law at lights - train drivers never deliberately SPAD. Safety systems give drivers a lot of protection from human error, perhaps too much resulting in complacency. When it goes really wrong the result can be catastrophic with multiple fatalities which also happens when bus and coach drivers get it very wrong.

 

[455driver]

Want to check your Rule Book on that one...? I thought it was 10mph below linespeed at speeds above 50mph.

Or have I just shown myself up?

O L Leigh

No you are right, in falling or disturbed snow it is 10 below linespeed at any speed above 50, full service brake applications every 3-5 minutes and speed must be reduced by at least 10mph, (but no need if this would cause your train to stop), this last bit is aimed at freight drivers.

 

[pendolino]

Want to check your Rule Book on that one...? I thought it was 10mph below linespeed at speeds above 50mph.

Or have I just shown myself up?

O L Leigh

No you are right, in falling or disturbed snow it is 10 below linespeed at any speed above 50, full service brake applications every 3-5 minutes and speed must be reduced by at least 10mph, (but no need if this would cause your train to stop), this last bit is aimed at freight drivers.

Well, sort of. The '10 below linespeed' rule doesn't apply to everything - only disc braked MU trains, class 325s and loco hauled trains running at over 100mph - see TW1 and TW2. And the specific wording for the additional running brake test has been removed - now the requirement is for a brake test as frequently as necessary to ensure the brake is operating effectively - see the amendments module.

 

[Dave1987]

Apologies my post was to reflect the fact that unlike in a car during poor visibility you do not need to significantly reduce your speed. Not quoting the rule book word for word!

 

[notadriver]

I have great admiration for bus and train drivers but which is the more difficult job? It's true that trains aren't steered and the driver has no control over routing which together take much of a road drivers attention. Modern trains, like road vehicles, are 'press & go' so it's only really braking accuracy that requires skill and concentration, I wonder if the most demanding aspect on express trains where there can be quite long periods with little or no driver input required is maintaining focus. Train driving can, and already is on DLR and some TfL lines, be automated though I wouldn't be happy without a person in overall control. Perhaps the Americans have got it right in calling a train driver an Engineer.

As an ex signal engineer I get really annoyed by people who assume rail signals are just like traffic lights - totally and utterly wrong. Traffic lights are a cheap and nasty rip-off of rail signals and car drivers who talk of train drivers 'running a red' are admitting to how readily they break the law at lights - train drivers never deliberately SPAD. Safety systems give drivers a lot of protection from human error, perhaps too much resulting in complacency. When it goes really wrong the result can be catastrophic with multiple fatalities which also happens when bus and coach drivers get it very wrong.

I'm a train driver who drives coaches (not buses) on days off as a hobby. I find coach driving far easier and the main reason is the vehicle has better brakes. Its driven on line of sight. See a red light or obstruction and just press the brake. Brake a bit too late - just press the brake pedal harder. Route knowledge is really only about where to turn left or right. Add to the fact they if a coach breaks down its only holding itself up. If a train breaks down ......

Whenever I do coach driving which i stress is now a hobby - my coach driver colleagues continually make fun of me on how easy driving a train is. They seem to forget Ive driven buses and coaches for well over a decade so I know all about their job but they know little about mine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Apologies my post was to reflect the fact that unlike in a car during poor visibility you do not need to significantly reduce your speed. Not quoting the rule book word for word!

In poor visibility even near zero visibility night and fog I don't reduce speed at all! Good job the public don't have a view out the front - they would think I was reckless.

 

[DarloRich]

piece of p*ss tbh - you just sit on your rse looking out of the window pulling levers, pushing buttons and twiddling with knobs. Oh and drinking tea. Then going on strike, despite getting paid a bloody fortune. Easiest job in the world. Dont know they are born. Them and signal men.

Now you want to try working in an office. That is hard. In work for 9, away by 5, an hour for lunch, 5 days a week, having to answer the phone and send emails, going to meetings, reading and producing reports, sorting out all the operations staff mistakes, doing ALL of the work, getting none of the credit and getting paid less than lazy drivers AND trying to chat up the fit birds in the office. Now THAT is hard work!

Dont know they are born i tell you!

 

[LexyBoy]

I love it when I lean forward to look out of the windscreen and I cant see the rails for the fog, then look at the speedo needle on the 90mph mark. then the ping of a magnet and I know exactly where I am because I am running through the route in my head, put the brake in, slow down smoothly and hit the ramp doing the exact speed I want (either 30 or 40 depending on platform length) and then stop smoothly right on the mark.
Still makes me smile.

Does it take a lot of nerve to do this at first (or still!), or are you so confident at seeing the route in your mind's eye that driving blind is OK?

Your description makes me think of swimming underwater in muddy water. Even though I know nothing bad is going to happen and I'm not going to suddenly crash into anything, I can never go far before the panic at not being able to see kicks in.

It's true that trains aren't steered and the driver has no control over routing which together take much of a road drivers attention.

They still have to pay attention to where they're being routed though, if they don't pick up on a mis-set junction very quickly it has potential to lead to considerable disruption. Or at the very a walk back through the train past many amused faces, as when a Voyager I was once on pulled into Reading... on the middle road!

I trust you to know where the stations are. It is the random stuff such as stray cows and fallen trees I sometimes worry about.

A lot of the time those things would be unavoidable even in perfectly clear weather though.

 

[455driver]

I used to work in an office, phone off the hook, deleting all the emails so I can watch p++n all day on the computer, right old ugly birds working in there that I wouldnt touch with a barge pole, switching money into my slush account when I wanted a new ferrari.

Yep working in an office is a nightmare!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does it take a lot of nerve to do this at first (or still!), or are you so confident at seeing the route in your mind's eye that driving blind is OK?

Route knowledge, route knowledge, route knowledge.

Yes I am very comfortable doing this, I need to be, and as long as everything is normal- correct signal aspects, reasonable rail-head etc then business as normal, lose my bearings and the brake goes in and knock the speed right down until I get them back.

Most of the questions trainees ask during training get the same 2 word answer- route knowledge, and do you know something, they are right route knowledge is king.

I had a new trainee out for a cab experience ride the other morning, bit misty and slippery (first train over the route) and he commented that I was talking to him calmly when we couldnt see very far and the train was sliding a little bit and he had noticed this with the other drivers, I said its because this is exactly what I was expecting on this trip so am prepared for it but you wait and see what happens if the train picks up, I will go silent and ignore you, no offence meant though. Luckily or unluckily depending on your viewpoint the train didnt pick up so he could experience it.

Oh did I mention that route knowledge is king?

 

[AlexS]

Most jobs have their challenges I think! I used to work in a social security office and trying to sort out things to everyone's (both the department and the claimant) satisfaction was a pain in the backside. Train driving is reasonably easy until something out of course happens or conditions are challenging. Then it becomes anything but.

I'm a train dispatcher - 95% of the time my job is pretty easy. When the job stops though trying to manage confused/concerned passengers, train crews that don't know where they should be/what they are doing and standing trains that are blocking part of/all of platforms missing crew members or without workings, all while trying to safely keep what you can moving and keeping the signaller and control advised of who/what you have standing around where, and which resources can or cannot be utilised can be a nightmare. However generally people will see me on the platform waving my ping pong bat at the guard and talking to people, so the assumption that my job is always easy is an easy one to make.

I think it applies to every job going really - there's very few that don't get challenging at some point, otherwise they're somewhat pointless.

 

[EM2]

...full service brake applications every 3-5 minutes ...

This obviously doesn't mean what it seems to, as it suggests you'd be stopping the train!
So what *does* it mean?

 

[Dave1987]

This obviously doesn't mean what it seems to, as it suggests you'd be stopping the train!
So what *does* it mean?

On the brake handle you have step 1, step 2, full service, and emergency. Once in emergency you cannot release the brake until the train has come to a complete stand. Like with our 321's if a passenger pulls a pass com the brakes come on in emergency, nothing the driver can do about it, then he/she will not be able to release the brakes until the pass com has been reset. All to do with "wire 13". That is if some little scumbag hasn't pulled the pass com off the wall so it can't be reset. Then that's an EBS job and all passengers off!

 

[RPM]

This obviously doesn't mean what it seems to, as it suggests you'd be stopping the train!
So what *does* it mean?

It refers to running brake tests - not stopping the train. Keeps the brake gear warm and ice-free and gives the driver reassurance that the brakes are still fully effective.

 

[LexyBoy]

Route knowledge, route knowledge, route knowledge.

Yes I am very comfortable doing this, I need to be, and as long as everything is normal- correct signal aspects, reasonable rail-head etc then business as normal, lose my bearings and the brake goes in and knock the speed right down until I get them back.

Most of the questions trainees ask during training get the same 2 word answer- route knowledge, and do you know something, they are right route knowledge is king.

I had a new trainee out for a cab experience ride the other morning, bit misty and slippery (first train over the route) and he commented that I was talking to him calmly when we couldnt see very far and the train was sliding a little bit and he had noticed this with the other drivers, I said its because this is exactly what I was expecting on this trip so am prepared for it but you wait and see what happens if the train picks up, I will go silent and ignore you, no offence meant though. Luckily or unluckily depending on your viewpoint the train didnt pick up so he could experience it.

Oh did I mention that route knowledge is king?

Thanks for the answer. I guess what I was meaning is that even though you can know intellectually that everything is OK, exactly where you are and what's coming up, there's still something deep down that's unsettling about being unable to see ahead. I suppose you learn to not to rely (just) on sight so you don't get that feeling of blindness.

What does the train "picking up" mean? Loss of adhesion?