Question: Number of staff onboard a train

[jaapstam]

Hello folks,

I am from Germany and have been travelling around your beautiful country by train for five days last week. I was, once again, impressed by the hospitality and service onboard LNER East Coast and on Virgin Trains West Coast, both in First Class.

Can anybody help me out with the question of how many members of on-board staff are on duty on those services? I uses an LNER East Coast service (Class 225 not HST) from Newcastle to Edinburgh and a Virgin Pendolino from Edinburgh to Birmingham.

Apart from that I used a Grand Central train from York to Sunderland and found as well there was quite a lot of on-board staff on duty. Any idea of their numbers or rosters, too?

Kind regards
jaapstam

 

[Bungle965]

If I am right in thinking there should have been 5 members of staff on board the Virgin Trains service (possibly 6 if there was a chef), 2 first class catering staff, 1 person manning the shop+ a guard and a driver.
Sam

 

[jaapstam]

If I am right in thinking there should have been 5 members of staff on board the Virgin Trains service (possibly 6 if there was a chef), 2 first class catering staff, 1 person manning the shop+ a guard and a driver.
Sam

Thank you for your quick reply Sam,

but there have been definitely more. I was sitting in the very first coach, including the galley. I saw at least four doing first class catering service and one chef. There surely was one in the shop (which I didn't visit), minimum one conductor and -hopefully- a driver.

 

[sw1ller]

Thank you for your quick reply Sam,

but there have been definitely more. I was sitting in the very first coach, including the galley. I saw at least four doing first class catering service and one chef. There surely was one in the shop (which I didn't visit), minimum one conductor and -hopefully- a driver.

Did you see them at the same time? Or was there possibly a crew change at Preston?

 

[krus_aragon]

It is also possible that some crew members were travelling to/from their next shift by train.

 

[jaapstam]

Did you see them at the same time? Or was there possibly a crew change at Preston?

All at the same time, all on-board the 6:52 ex Edinburgh last Friday. One was leaving already at Carlisle I think, the others continued.

 

[jaapstam]

It is also possible that some crew members were travelling to/from their next shift by train.

Those came additionally (wearing VT clothes or carried VT bags)

One of the service staff offered coffee, another one (!) offered tea. One took breakfast orders and delivered them in my coach, another one in other coaches. I am pretty sure this was the case. I am working for Germany's Deutsche Bahn and was therefore especially interested and paid attention

And well, yes, I should have simply asked them...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is also possible that some crew members were travelling to/from their next shift by train.

There is a (quite nice) culture in VTWC that if staff are travelling "on the cushions" (that term could never be used for a Class 800 ) they will help out if things are busy rather than sit reading the paper.

 

[jaapstam]

There is a (quite nice) culture in VTWC that if staff are travelling "on the cushions" (that term could never be used for a Class 800 ) they will help out if things are busy rather than sit reading the paper.

For what I'd love them even more!
Thank you Bletchleyite!

Any ideas about the numbers on LNER or Grand Central?

 

[LowLevel]

LNER is a bit harder as they have staff booked to join and leave services en route. With the at seat service provision in first class as you may have gathered Intercity train crews can be far larger in the UK than elsewhere.

 

[jaapstam]

LNER is a bit harder as they have staff booked to join and leave services en route. With the at seat service provision in first class as you may have gathered Intercity train crews can be far larger in the UK than elsewhere.

Thank you LowLevel (and all the other users posting replies as well!) for your answer!

 

[MattyLDS]

Hey Jappstam

I work for Grand Central but on the West Riding route to Bradford, we usually have 4 staff on board

1 driver 1 guard 2 customer hosts although sometimes we have a guard in training aswell or another csa who is being trained up

how did you find your experience on GC?

MattyLDS

 

[jaapstam]

Hey Jappstam

I work for Grand Central but on the West Riding route to Bradford, we usually have 4 staff on board

1 driver 1 guard 2 customer hosts although sometimes we have a guard in training aswell or another csa who is being trained up

how did you find your experience on GC?

MattyLDS

Hi Matty,

thank you very much for your reply and information provided. I quite liked the refurbished (?) interior with leather seats in first class. Your colleagues have been very friendly and helpful and I liked it a lot to use GC. Unfortunately there was no included meal service in first class what I found a little bit disappointing as you are a long-distance carrier and operate in 1:1 competition against LNER. I used your service from York to Sunderland.

 

[MattyLDS]

Hey
yeah its just complimentary drinks and snacks in 1st from the trolley or something from the paid menu which is from the buffet as we have no on board kitchen so no full meals service

what is 1st class like on DB?

was recently on a ICE from Dortmund to Dusseldorf, very nice journey and impressive interior!

 

[craigybagel]

When I worked for Virgin West Coast 6 years ago the minimum staffing was as follows:

Pendolino:
Breakfast - 6 catering staff (1 Service manager + 1 chef + 4 CSA's). One CSA goes in the shop, the rest go in 1st class.

Dinner - 4 catering staff (1 Service Manager + 3 CSA's). One goes in shop, rest go in 1st Class. Normally the Service Manager did the cooking but CSA's were trained in how to do it as well.

Rest of day - 3 catering staff (1 Service Manager or Assistant Service Manager + 2 CSA's). 1 in shop, other 2 in 1st class.

Weekend - 2 catering staff, of any rank. 1 in shop, 1 in 1st

Voyagers

Weekdays, all day - 2 catering staff (1 Assistant Service Manager, 1 CSA). 1 in shop, 1 in first.

Weekends - 1 catering staff, in shop. No at seat service in 1st.

On top of all of these you need to add 1 Train Manager and 1 Driver. Staff numbers for Voyagers were per unit, so a double set had 4 catering staff on board. Also, to get staff in the right place there were often extra staff on top of these numbers onboard. As has been pointed out, common etiquette was for them to help out as required.

This has probably all changed mind, this was several years ago.

 

[Jonny]

LNER First Class on a weekday is very well staffed.

 

[sheff1]

On the Northern Lights to Aberdeen the other day the team leader made an announcement naming all the catering staff - there were 7 in total. Obviously there would also be a driver and guard.

On the EMT breakfast trains there seems to be a similar number but I have never counted them.

 

[route101]

Does Glasgow Central have LNER based staff for the 0648 to Kings X??

 

[30907]

Hey
yeah its just complimentary drinks and snacks in 1st from the trolley or something from the paid menu which is from the buffet as we have no on board kitchen so no full meals service

what is 1st class like on DB?

was recently on a ICE from Dortmund to Dusseldorf, very nice journey and impressive interior!

DB First - at seat service for (some) paid-for food/drink plus a tiny freebie packet of Haribo sweets or similar. But good lounge access - very good at the handful of stations with a dedicated first section.

 

[jaapstam]

Hey
yeah its just complimentary drinks and snacks in 1st from the trolley or something from the paid menu which is from the buffet as we have no on board kitchen so no full meals service

what is 1st class like on DB?

was recently on a ICE from Dortmund to Dusseldorf, very nice journey and impressive interior!

Thank you very much for all the new comments here, very much appreciated.

In Germany, most staff on-board usually are conductors checking tickets (I am surprised there is only one in total on a Virgin Pendolino with up to 11 coaches!). In ICE trains there is usually (not in all but most) one (or two on very full trains) first class hosts. They offer complimentary newspapers and distribute a mini bag of sweets before stopping at certain stations ("thank you for travelling first class"). Their main duty is to serve meals, snacks and drinks from the dining car but you would have to pay for.

In the dining car itself, depending on the type of train and time of day you would find between one and three members of staff.

 

[jaapstam]

When I worked for Virgin West Coast 6 years ago the minimum staffing was as follows:

Pendolino:
Breakfast - 6 catering staff (1 Service manager + 1 chef + 4 CSA's). One CSA goes in the shop, the rest go in 1st class.

Dinner - 4 catering staff (1 Service Manager + 3 CSA's). One goes in shop, rest go in 1st Class. Normally the Service Manager did the cooking but CSA's were trained in how to do it as well.

Rest of day - 3 catering staff (1 Service Manager or Assistant Service Manager + 2 CSA's). 1 in shop, other 2 in 1st class.

Weekend - 2 catering staff, of any rank. 1 in shop, 1 in 1st

Voyagers

Weekdays, all day - 2 catering staff (1 Assistant Service Manager, 1 CSA). 1 in shop, 1 in first.

Weekends - 1 catering staff, in shop. No at seat service in 1st.

On top of all of these you need to add 1 Train Manager and 1 Driver. Staff numbers for Voyagers were per unit, so a double set had 4 catering staff on board. Also, to get staff in the right place there were often extra staff on top of these numbers onboard. As has been pointed out, common etiquette was for them to help out as required.

This has probably all changed mind, this was several years ago.

Thank you very, very much craigybagel, that was detailed! Am I informed correctly that a VT staff always ends his/her shift at his/her home depot? In Germany you usually get to an overnight stop somewhere in the network about one or two times a week.

 

[craigybagel]

Thank you very, very much craigybagel, that was detailed! Am I informed correctly that a VT staff always ends his/her shift at his/her home depot? In Germany you usually get to an overnight stop somewhere in the network about one or two times a week.

You are correct, you always end up back at your home depot. I was based at Wolverhampton, so I always started and finished every day there. Sometimes that meant very short 5 hour days (1 round trip to Preston or London), but some days were over 12 hours (Wolverhampton - Glasgow - London - Wolverhampton, Wolverhampton - London - Chester - London - Chester - Wolverhampton). If there were no trains available to get you home, either through planned engineering work or through disruption, then taxis would be laid on to get you home. On at least one occasion that meant a taxi from Edinburgh to Wolverhampton!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

On at least one occasion that meant a taxi from Edinburgh to Wolverhampton!

Did you have to pay a deposit before leaving?

 

[NoOnesFool]

Thank you for your quick reply Sam,

but there have been definitely more. I was sitting in the very first coach, including the galley. I saw at least four doing first class catering service and one chef. There surely was one in the shop (which I didn't visit), minimum one conductor and -hopefully- a driver.

There was probably also some Revenue Protection Officers onboard (usually 2 or 3).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

There was probably also some Revenue Protection Officers onboard (usually 2 or 3).

What percentage of the depot is that then?

 

[221129]

Does Glasgow Central have LNER based staff for the 0648 to Kings X??

No. The set comes from Craigentinny and picks the crew up in Edinburgh.

 

[Highlandspring]

No. The set comes from Craigentinny and picks the crew up in Edinburgh.

The set for 1E06 stables at Polmadie overnight.

 

[Qwerty133]

EMT at weekends can often have just a driver, TM and agency cleaner on board, although there does sometimes seem to be first class hosts on board despite EMT not offering an at-seat service at weekends. Very occasionally RailGourmet may fulfil their contract and provide a member of staff for the catering in standard although more often than not this doesn't happen. In my experience, the only time a TM is likely to enter standard class north of Leicester is to operate the doors at short platforms.

 

[sarahj]

I once had to laugh boarding a CC train at York heading north and seeing 6 staff and thinking, here is me, working 12 car trains on my own (and the driver of course). But then it was decided that was a number too high and nowdays if your lucky a OBS will be there, possibly traveling that line for the first time ever that day.

 

[bunnahabhain]

EMT at weekends can often have just a driver, TM and agency cleaner on board, although there does sometimes seem to be first class hosts on board despite EMT not offering an at-seat service at weekends. Very occasionally RailGourmet may fulfil their contract and provide a member of staff for the catering in standard although more often than not this doesn't happen. In my experience, the only time a TM is likely to enter standard class north of Leicester is to operate the doors at short platforms.

There are generally no hosts booked on a weekend except the two Saturday breakfast trains, there are turns in the links for 'want work' Saturdays and Sundays I believe, to allow overtime to be fairly distributed amongst staff. So occasionally you'll see a Customer Host on a weekend on certain services.