Queue Waiting.

[najaB]

Sorry I disagree with this as as soon as you start this then that's when people start abusing it and theres enough of that going on anyway

I agree that the best option would be to employ more staff, but realistically that's not going to happen. If a TVM or PERTIS machine isn't feasible, then the least bad alternative is a sign allowing on-board ticket purchase.

 

[Haywain]

OK, a few years back at Barnehurst station on the evening of the annual free fireworks display on Blackheath. One TVM, ticket office closed, no other staff around. Queue halfway down the approach road, probably 50 deep. The choice was either wait to pay and miss the display or travel free. You do have to wonder what decisions had been made by SET about staffing that night. There were no ticket purchasing facilites at Blackheath either. At least these days most people use Oyster PAYG so it's not so much of a problem.

Unfortunately, an abundance of spare staff is not something any TOC is blessed with these days, so even if they were aware of the event (and some TOCs seem to struggle to know what is going on around their patch) it isn't a simple matter to cover something like this to make a difference.

 

[Antman]

OK, a few years back at Barnehurst station on the evening of the annual free fireworks display on Blackheath. One TVM, ticket office closed, no other staff around. Queue halfway down the approach road, probably 50 deep. The choice was either wait to pay and miss the display or travel free. You do have to wonder what decisions had been made by SET about staffing that night. There were no ticket purchasing facilites at Blackheath either. At least these days most people use Oyster PAYG so it's not so much of a problem.

That really is poor, I think everyone in SE London and beyond knows about the Blackheath fireworks display. Probably more cost effective for SET to accept that a lot of people aren't going to pay than to pay for the addition staffing.

 

[sheff1]

Back in the real world for a minute, how many people on here have ever had to queue for fifteen or twenty minutes to buy a ticket and under what circumstances?

This was the queue for TOD at Sheffield on 15 Nov. Queueing time was 25 mins when I arrived. Only 2 of the 5 TVMs were working. No one was being directed to the ticket office or advised to board with just the booking reference and some passengers missed their trains (I have no idea what happened to them, but there was quite a queue at the information point)

Of course, the other bank of 6 TVMs which used to have both Buy and Collect options were all working, but EMT decided some time ago to remove the Collect facility.

 

[najaB]

This was the queue for TOD at Sheffield on 15 Nov. Queueing time was 25 mins when I arrived. Only 2 of the 5 TVMs were working. No one was being directed to the ticket office or advised to board with just the booking reference and some passengers missed their trains (I have no idea what happened to them, but there was quite a queue at the information point)

Of course, the other bank of 6 TVMs which used to have both Buy and Collect options were all working, but EMT decided some time ago to remove the Collect facility.

Was the ticket office open? Did it have a queue?

 

[sheff1]

Was the ticket office open? Did it have a queue?

Yes x 2.

 

[najaB]

Yes x 2.

I'm disappointed then that the TOC didn't let people buy on board or, if possible, get some guys out on the concorse with Avantix machines.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If I recall correctly those are Ticket on Departure only machines, so for people who've already paid - neither someone with an Avantix nor buying on board would have been helpful here

 

[najaB]

If I recall correctly those are Ticket on Departure only machines, so for people who've already paid - neither someone with an Avantix nor buying on board would have been helpful here

I'm sure that some of the people queuing in the ticket office would have been buying tickets. Let them buy on board or on the concourse and it frees up the ticket office at least a bit.

 

[Tom B]

Unfortunately, an abundance of spare staff is not something any TOC is blessed with these days, so even if they were aware of the event (and some TOCs seem to struggle to know what is going on around their patch) it isn't a simple matter to cover something like this to make a difference.

Both those things are matters within the TOCs control. Is it really a problem for the passenger that the company cannot make itself aware of events which will impact on its services, or that they do not employ sufficient staff or manage them so as to be able to cover special occasions?

 

[455driver]

That really is poor, I think everyone in SE London and beyond knows about the Blackheath fireworks display. Probably more cost effective for SET to accept that a lot of people aren't going to pay than to pay for the addition staffing.

Where are the 'extra' staff going to come from?

 

[timbo58]

I think it's also worth bearing in mind that ticket sales are often the only proof the TOC has that a service is being used.

SET could legitimately argue that since they had only 'sold' 2 tickets or whatever there was no demand for the service and cancel it due to lack of use.

 

[455driver]

Both those things are matters within the TOCs control. Is it really a problem for the passenger that the company cannot make itself aware of events which will impact on its services, or that they do not employ sufficient staff or manage them so as to be able to cover special occasions?

So you think TOCs should employ extra staff just in case they are needed which might be once in a blue moon! :roll:

 

[Antman]

Where are the 'extra' staff going to come from?

Surely it is just a matter of existing staff doing a bit of overtime? SET should know about the Blackheath fireworks well in advance.

 

[fowler9]

Surely it is just a matter of existing staff doing a bit of overtime? SET should know about the Blackheath fireworks well in advance.

You can't force staff to do overtime. At least I don't think you can!

 

[Antman]

You can't force staff to do overtime. At least I don't think you can!

Well then maybe a few members of management can staff the appropriate ticket offices for an extra few have? Obviously the police manage to have sufficient officers at the event and on the buses the 202 bus route which is normally operated with single deckers has double deckers to cope with the crowds, just a bit of forward planning.

 

[fowler9]

Well then maybe a few members of management can staff the appropriate ticket offices for an extra few have? Obviously the police manage to have sufficient officers at the event and on the buses the 202 bus route which is normally operated with single deckers has double deckers to cope with the crowds, just a bit of forward planning.

I don't think it is that simple. Where I work you need security clearance, even with a ban on leave we can't take on and clear enough staff to work for a few weeks and remain financially viable. The buses, you don't need any more staff to put on a double decker. The police you can stop leave and even draught in the armed forces as back up.

 

[Antman]

I don't think it is that simple. Where I work you need security clearance, even with a ban on leave we can't take on and clear enough staff to work for a few weeks and remain financially viable. The buses, you don't need any more staff to put on a double decker. The police you can stop leave and even draught in the armed forces as back up.

I don't think we need the armed forces for a firework display. If SET cannot organise themselves to open a few ticket offices for a few extra hours then I think it is a pretty poor show.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Why should they though? They've decided that costs more than they'll take in tickets for the night; they've no legal obligation to not make people queue

 

[transmanche]

Why should they though?

Customer service...

 

[fowler9]

Customer service...

It isn't a service any more though. It is business. I'm sure worrying about the good will of the public will have been factored in to the decision not to put on extra staff along with the fact the public have naff all other options.

 

[bravot]

What, you mean tutting at someone who doesn't join the queue isn't law?!

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1981/6.html

 

[transmanche]

It isn't a service any more though. It is business.

I didn't say it wasn't a business - but it's definitely a service (i.e. it's the supply of a service rather than the supply of goods).

Even businesses such as Tesco have realised that poor customer service is part of the reason for their recent problems and is making changes. Businesses treat customers with contempt at their peril.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Customer service...

Costs money and doesn't earn money - I think they've made very clear (e.g. in response to the Which? survey) their opinion on how much custom good attitudes towards their customers would bring them.

It's very nice to see you back, by the way

 

[fowler9]

I didn't say it wasn't a business - but it's definitely a service (i.e. it's the supply of a service rather than the supply of goods).

Even businesses such as Tesco have realised that poor customer service is part of the reason for their recent problems and is making changes. Businesses treat customers with contempt at their peril.

See the part where I said about the customer having no other choice. Where I live I can use Tesco, Asda and several other shops without wandering too far. If I want to get a train to town I can use Northern or, erm, Northern. They can do what the hell they want and I still have to use them, get the bus or walk.

 

[transmanche]

Costs money and doesn't earn money.

Actually many business have demonstrated the opposite. Providing good customer service is an investment which reaps dividends. I've worked in a few businesses which have used Net Promoter Score effectively to increase profits.

It's very nice to see you back, by the way

Thank you. I left because I found that atmosphere could be very aggressive if you didn't follow the 'party line'. I'm hoping that things might be better now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

See the part where I said about the customer having no other choice. Where I live I can use Tesco, Asda and several other shops without wandering too far. If I want to get a train to town I can use Northern or, erm, Northern. They can do what the hell they want and I still have to use them, get the bus or walk.

They might be your only option for train travel, but not your only option for travel.

Irrespective of that, whilst they might have you as a 'captive market' for commuting, they don't have that same captive market for leisure and other discretionary travel. And increasing discretionary travel can make a significant difference to the profitability of the business.

 

[PermitToTravel]

You're obviously right on every count. A railway franchise is a safe (near-guaranteed!) investment even without doing any of those things, though, and I can only guess that some TOC managers don't want to take risks

The Net Promoter Score article looks very interesting

 

[fowler9]

Actually many business have demonstrated the opposite. Providing good customer service is an investment which reaps dividends. I've worked in a few businesses which have used Net Promoter Score effectively to increase profits.

Thank you. I left because I found that atmosphere could be very aggressive if you didn't follow the 'party line'. I'm hoping that things might be better now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They might be your only option for train travel, but not your only option for travel.

Irrespective of that, whilst they might have you as a 'captive market' for commuting, they don't have that same captive market for leisure and other discretionary travel. And increasing discretionary travel can make a significant difference to the profitability of the business.

I don't agree with you. If I want to get the train from West Allerton to Lime Street for leisure purposes as opposed to getting to work I don't suddenly have the choice of more service providers on the railway network.

 

[PermitToTravel]

What happens in practice is that you choose not to go to Lime Street for leisure purposes

 

[transmanche]

I don't agree with you. If I want to get the train from West Allerton to Lime Street for leisure purposes as opposed to getting to work I don't suddenly have the choice of more service providers on the railway network.

I think you might have misunderstood the meaning of discretionary.

What happens in practice is that you choose not to go to Lime Street for leisure purposes

Exactly!

So rather than taking the train to experience the delights of Liverpool City Centre you either; choose some other method of transport (if available), or spend your time and money doing something else instead.