Quickest ever Customer Service resolution?

[Deerfold]

I really don't see why the huge effort not to name the TOC and stations. I just don't get it but nevermind.

And I don't understand why you insist on knowing all the station and TOC details in cases where it doesn't make a huge amount of difference.

 

[crehld]

TBQH bnm is a regular on these forums and will know what needs to be done, or who he needs to PM for advice.

This thread is more about the principle.

Because TOC staff frequent these forums and the OP has been told he may be prosecuted.

Because this thread isn't a request for advice, we don't need to know those details.

Agreed on all counts. There is no compulsion for bnm to furnish us with the details, and I can understand his reticence in doing so.

The material fact is he boarded a train and started his journey without prior opportunity to purchase a ticket, and yet is being threatened with prosecution.

I'm sure bnm will update us as the situation evolves.

 

[bnm]

Latest info I've got is that no report was made by the ticket examiner I encountered on the day. Nor the RPI I briefly spoke to on the phone.

The only way that the prosecutions dept have got my personal details, and a summary of the incident, is from Customer Services, following the call I made to them on July 2nd.

A call to Customer Services this morning left me with the impression that the original advisor (who empathised and offered the goodwill gesture) has been over-ruled by his manager. That's the manager who emailed me on Friday 22nd July. It would appear that this manager has unilaterally decided I should be brought to the attention of the prosecutions dept, based on the information I supplied.

So, if the TOC procede to prosecute then their evidence will be the information I freely gave when I complained. Said 'evidence' is the sequence of events I laid out in the OP. Madness.

I also spoke with the TOC's prosecution dept. They've not yet received anything from Customer Services. I was told to wait up to two weeks. Just what I don't need. The threat, however seemingly unlikely, of prosecution hanging over me. This is just the sort of stressful situation that affects my well-being. Yes, I can deal with the process without outside help, but I'd rather not have to deal with it at all.

I'll let things run their course at the speed dictated by the TOC, but they won't find me an easy mark for any administrative penalty in lieu of prosecution. I'll only be offering the fare due. A fare I tried to pay twice on the day and a fare I've said I'm happy to pay each time I've called.

When all is done and dusted then I'll name and shame. You'll just have to wait gray1401!

 

[najaB]

Yes, I can deal with the process without outside help, but I'd rather not have to deal with it at all.

That goes without saying. They aren't exactly showering themselves in glory here...

 

[AlterEgo]

Best of luck.

You may need it! And relax; you're in the right.

 

[gray1404]

I'm on the move right now so cant write much. However given the fact CS have said one thing, done the opposite and you've had a reply from a Manager...I do believe you can involve Transport Focus at this point. I would also go to my MP!

 

[richw]

I fear IF it's the same TOC you've had regular issues in the past, it's a case they've looked at your name and thought "yes we've got him".

 

[LowLevel]

Disabled Persons Railcard holders are generally entitled to purchase a ticket on board. Hope you've got a copy of the TOC's Disabled Persons Protection Policy. That alone should see them off.

 

[bnm]

I fear IF it's the same TOC you've had regular issues in the past, it's a case they've looked at your name and thought "yes we've got him".

[Youtube]WMRUHGnN29s[/youtube]

 

[bnm]

Disabled Persons Railcard holders are generally entitled to purchase a ticket on board. Hope you've got a copy of the TOC's Disabled Persons Protection Policy. That alone should see them off.

My main 'defence' argument is lack of opportunity to purchase prior to boarding. I'll only play the 'disabled' card if absolutely necessary. My physical disabilities are transient and not the main reason for my DSB entitlement, but I will use the TOCs DPPP against them if I have to. Such policies have to be all encompassing for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. No business wants to go down the route of, " you're not disabled enough..."

Last resort though. And yes I have copies (.pdf and leaflet) of the TOCs DPPP. Which quite clearly says that disabled persons can buy on board without penalty.

 

[najaB]

My main 'defence' argument is lack of opportunity to purchase prior to boarding.

If there was no opportunity to purchase then that's case closed.

 

[crehld]

If there was no opportunity to purchase then that's case closed.

Or at least one would hope it should be!

 

[jon0844]

I fear IF it's the same TOC you've had regular issues in the past, it's a case they've looked at your name and thought "yes we've got him".

That thought crossed my mind, reminding me of when a certain ex-RPI thought he'd 'got me' over splitting a season ticket, and that didn't end well for him or the TOC.

 

[Wolfie]

Latest info I've got is that no report was made by the ticket examiner I encountered on the day. Nor the RPI I briefly spoke to on the phone.

The only way that the prosecutions dept have got my personal details, and a summary of the incident, is from Customer Services, following the call I made to them on July 2nd.

A call to Customer Services this morning left me with the impression that the original advisor (who empathised and offered the goodwill gesture) has been over-ruled by his manager. That's the manager who emailed me on Friday 22nd July. It would appear that this manager has unilaterally decided I should be brought to the attention of the prosecutions dept, based on the information I supplied.

So, if the TOC procede to prosecute then their evidence will be the information I freely gave when I complained. Said 'evidence' is the sequence of events I laid out in the OP. Madness.

I also spoke with the TOC's prosecution dept. They've not yet received anything from Customer Services. I was told to wait up to two weeks. Just what I don't need. The threat, however seemingly unlikely, of prosecution hanging over me. This is just the sort of stressful situation that affects my well-being. Yes, I can deal with the process without outside help, but I'd rather not have to deal with it at all.

I'll let things run their course at the speed dictated by the TOC, but they won't find me an easy mark for any administrative penalty in lieu of prosecution. I'll only be offering the fare due. A fare I tried to pay twice on the day and a fare I've said I'm happy to pay each time I've called.

When all is done and dusted then I'll name and shame. You'll just have to wait gray1401!

..and at the end of it a letter to the TOC's MD (copied perhaps to your MP) ensuring the "wonderful" contribution of the Customer Service Manager is duly highlighted...

I know that you don't want to talk about the TOC but can't help wondering if this is some sad individual seeking some sort of "payback" for your past adventures...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I know that you don't want to talk about the TOC but can't help wondering if this is some sad individual seeking some sort of "payback" for your past adventures...

Wouldn't it be helpful to achieving a balanced discussion if we had some input from the other party on here, whoever they may be, in whatever capacity they may be speaking?

It might go some way towards understanding the situation, putting values and judgements aside.

 

[richw]

Wouldn't it be helpful to achieving a balanced discussion if we had some input from the other party on here, whoever they may be, in whatever capacity they may be speaking?

It might go some way towards understanding the situation, putting values and judgements aside.

We don't have any officials from the various TOCs unfortunately, and most wouldn't comment publicly as can be seen on Twitter in such cases where they insist on moving to email contact.

The only corporate official I am aware that answers on this forum is First South West in the buses forum. I believe (from private communications) that poster using FSWOfficial is a (very) senior manager.

 

[bnm]

Wouldn't it be helpful to achieving a balanced discussion if we had some input from the other party on here, whoever they may be, in whatever capacity they may be speaking?

It might go some way towards understanding the situation, putting values and judgements aside.

Err... I have included the email from the TOC's Customer Service department, the first written correspondence from them.

Sorry, but I can't offer recordings of the numerous phone calls I've made to both Customer Services and the TOC's prosecutions dept. I could of course give a precis of each call here if you are desirous of 'balanced discussion'. But is it really necessary? It's not something I've seen you request before.

Return phone calls from managers have been promised. Twice. And twice that hasn't happened in the time frame given.

As and when I get correspondence in writing I will share it here. Subject to careful consideration of course. If the TOC continue down the road to prosecution I don't want to do or say anything here that may be prejudicial.

I'm not after assistance from this forum. This thread is merely commentary. I wasn't aware that we now require the right of reply to aid understanding or to put values and judgements aside.

These simple facts remains. I boarded a train having had no opportunity to purchase a ticket. I was then denied the opportunity to purchase a railcard (disabled) discounted fare. Full fare was demanded. Customer Services initially agreed I was poorly treated and offered both goodwil and a promise of no further action. That has been over-ruled for no reason I can fathom. I'm now threatened with prosecution for only offering up the discounted fare.

And please, no lawyerly discourse on what constitutes a threat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another call to the prosecutions dept this afternoon. Sorry DaveNewcastle, I didn't record it, so you won't get to hear their input.

Told that the case has been closed with no further action. A letter is on its way to me, hopefully with more detail.

Now the ball is back in the Customer Services court. I shall be requiring from them a full explanation of the actions of the Senior Customer Services Officer in forwarding my details to the prosecutions dept and over-ruling the original CS decision, which was an apology for being refused sale of a railcard discounted fare and a goodwill gesture.

Now, for all of you with a overly inquisitive interest in having every detail of the journey. :roll:

Problem TOC was GWR.

My journey began at Dawlish Warren (a station with no facilities) with CrossCountry at 0929. No opportunity to purchase afforded itself on this train. My interchange station was Bristol Temple Meads. The XC service arrived on Platform 5 at 1100, 9 minutes late. My onward destination was Avonmouth, a GWR service scheduled to depart Platform 7 at 1116. Now, whether 16 minutes is sufficient time to walk to the station entrance, queue, make a purchase, and walk back to my onward train is down to interpretation. Staffing levels. Length of queue. My ambulatory ability on the day (poor, and using a walking stick due to troublesome coccyx). For me it would have been marginal. Therefore I see this as having had no opportunity to purchase. Backed up by the protection from any penalty for not buying before boarding, in GWR's Disabled Person's Protection Policy.

Extract:

Where disabled customers are unable to purchase a ticket at a station before their journey, they will be able to buy a ticket without penalty on the train or at their destination.

Platform 5 to platform 7 was a cross platform change with no facility to purchase on said platforms. A walk to and from gateline/ticket office and queueing would have meant a very real chance of missing the connection.

There was then a late platform change (from P7 to P1), called around 7 minutes prior to the advertised departure. This did take me past the excess fares desk next to the gateline. However by the time I got there, there was a long queue of passengers from the incoming Severn Beach line service waiting to purchase. Had I joined this queue I would likely have missed the train to Avonmouth. Therefore there as no opportunity to purchase prior to boarding.

What followed with the Ticket Examiner on board the train to Avonmouth is detailed in the OP.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
See. Unmoderated post got through!

 

[najaB]

Told that the case has been closed with no further action. A letter is on its way to me, hopefully with more detail.

Now the ball is back in the Customer Services court. I shall be requiring from them a full explanation of the actions of the Senior Customer Services Officer in forwarding my details to the prosecutions dept and over-ruling the original CS decision, which was an apology for being refused sale of a railcard discounted fare and a goodwill gesture.

As well it should be! I'm shocked that the CS person actually thought it was even worth forwarding to the prosecutions team in an attempt to cause you hassle, it was so clearly not going to go anywhere.

 

[richw]

Now we know the TOC I'm more sure the senior customer service person may have seen and recognised the name and rubbed hands together!

 

[Parallel]

Disappointing that they haven't followed their own DSB railcard policy.

The only time I've had a ticket issue was on the Severn Beach line. I bought a (16-25) railcard discounted fare to Severn Beach. I didn't realise that my railcard had expired the day before and I hadn't swapped it with my new one - My fault, a clumsy mistake.

The ticket examiner saw that my railcard had expired on the return journey and retained the railcard (understandably) but left me with a railcard discounted ticket...

I spoke to them again when they next came through about 10 mins later and asked to pay the correct fare. The examiner asked if I had purchased my ticket from a person or a machine. I said my origin station only had a ticket office and he said that was okay and then excessed my ticket.

What would have happened if I hadn't asked about the ticket? Would they have just let me travel on knowing that my ticket wasn't valid, after retaining my (expired) railcard?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

As well it should be! I'm shocked that the CS person actually thought it was even worth forwarding to the prosecutions team in an attempt to cause you hassle, it was so clearly not going to go anywhere.

It's the railway - never attribute to malice what can be explained by

• Ignorance
• Incompetence
• Inability
• Inadequate training
• And mentally deficient staff who we wouldn't have let push BRUTEs around back in the day, let alone have anything to do with something as complex as ticketing and money.

 

[bnm]

Now we know the TOC I'm more sure the senior customer service person may have seen and recognised the name and rubbed hands together!

I never ascribe to conspiracy what can be ascribed to incompetence.

 

[Puffing Devil]

It's the railway - never attribute to malice what can be explained by

[....]And mentally deficient staff who we wouldn't have let push BRUTEs around back in the day, let alone have anything to do with something as complex as ticketing and money.

Offensive.

 

[najaB]

Offensive.

I'm sure it's intended to refer to those who choose not to use their intellectual powers, rather than those who lack them through birth or injury.

 

[bnm]

The letter from the prosections dept. arrived this morning.

It confirms no further action.

However, it goes on to say the actions of the Ticket Examiner on the day were correct. Saying:

You must ensure you are in possession of a valid ticket for your entire journey. If you do not have a valid ticket you are required to purchase one. You are not entitled to a railcard discount once you have boarded the train if you have travelled from a station with ticket selling facilities.

So, by implication the Prosecutions Dept. are saying I was in the wrong. :roll:


EDIT: I've just realised that in my earlier posts I'd forgotten to mention that I already held tickets for part of the journey. These were a 1st Anytime Single from Dawlish Warren to Taunton and a 1st Advance XC mobile e-ticket from Taunton to Bristol TM.

 

[gray1404]

That does not take away the fact the you were unable to get your ticket before starting your journey as no TVM or ticket office. GWR are in the wrong. Are you going to take this further by way of a complaint? Transport Focus etc.... ?

 

[Clip]

.

What would have happened if I hadn't asked about the ticket? Would they have just let me travel on knowing that my ticket wasn't valid, after retaining my (expired) railcard?

Who knows as every day and every person is different in how they approch thing. Contrary to some posters belief on here, most RPIs and guards are sympathetic to a wide range of issues and will help where they can. This forum only has a small amount of troubles compared to the amount of people who travel by train and that speaks volumes to my collegues up and down the country who just do their job.