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Rail Ombudsman - any experiences to date

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deltic

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A common complaint on these forums was the lack of an Ombudsman. Now that the Rail Ombudsman has been running for a couple of years has anyone taken a complaint to it and how effective has it been?
 
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robbeech

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Unfortunately none of the staff there have been given any knowledge in matters they are there to resolve. So, unless they already have the knowledge or have a keen interest in it so learn this sort of stuff themselves they essentially bow down to whatever the operator says on their side of the story and take that as gospel.

For example (real world example)

passenger misses last connection due to only being given 3 minutes to connect (minimum connection time 10 minutes).

passenger requests assistance at fully staffed station. Request is refused as the train arrived before the connecting train departed.

passenger managed to get a bus home costing around £3 but is delayed over an hour.

passenger is eligible for 100% delay repay on their advance ticket. About £40, plus the £3 bus fare.

passenger claims delay repay, immediately rejected as train was only 12 minutes late and connecting train ran to time.

Claim appealed due to missed connection

appeal rejected manually.

dead lock requested, and refused.
40 day time limit reached and letter to ombudsman written.

information given in full to ombudsman to show missed connection, minimum connection time data, bus timetable, bus ticket, all correspondence with TOC.

TOCs side of the story says : we feel 3 minutes is enough time and as such the passenger is not eligible for delay repay.

Ombudsman decision : TOC says they don’t have to pay as they consider 3 minutes enough time. Rejected.

They simply have zero clue most of the time, but then why bite the hand that feeds you?

For reference this was not my journey but the connecting station was Leeds. P3 far end to P17.

There have been positive outcomes too from them but I’d suggest it was more luck than anything.
 

trenopendo

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I second robbeech's post. Issued a claim against abusive practices from GWR, and it seems the Rail Ombudsman bows and merrily eats anything that TOCs spite.
 

Titfield

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The Rail Ombudsman and the Furniture and Home Improvement Ombudsman both have the same address.

That may tell you all you need to know!
 

Horizon22

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The Rail Ombudsman and the Furniture and Home Improvement Ombudsman both have the same address.

That may tell you all you need to know!

That more than one company uses the same office? Not exactly groundbreaking.
 

SteveM70

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I complained to the Ombudsman back in 2019 about the way Northern's TVMs displayed options for tickets (to cut a long story short, showing "anytime short distance return" at the top of the list and nudging people towards that when the majority would only need a day return, but only showing the validity info at the second stage, ie when there is no longer any comparison to the other tickets). They gave me Northern's reply, which in true politician style seemed to be the answer to a different question, then when I said that hadn't answered my question they told me the case was closed as "there is no scope for any mediation". Or to put it another way, the customer and the railway disagree, and we're siding with the railway.

So no, no use at all
 

Titfield

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That more than one company uses the same office? Not exactly groundbreaking.

Jonny Westbrooke a non executive director of the Rail Ombudsman is Clerk and Chief Executive of the Furniture Makers’ Company

Team Members Archive - Rail Ombudsman
Jonny joined the board as a Non-Executive Director in 2019. He has been Clerk and Chief Executive of the Furniture Makers’ Company since 2012 and is also a current director of the Forces Pension Society. Previous appointments include running FIRA international. He holds an MBA from Cranfield University and a diploma in Marketing.
 

yorkie

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A common complaint on these forums was the lack of an Ombudsman. Now that the Rail Ombudsman has been running for a couple of years has anyone taken a complaint to it and how effective has it been?
My experience of them has been very negative but I shaln't go into details here. I see the creation of a Rail Ombudsman as a huge missed opportunity. I do not think they have many, if any, actual experts among them.
 

Horizon22

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Jonny Westbrooke a non executive director of the Rail Ombudsman is Clerk and Chief Executive of the Furniture Makers’ Company

Team Members Archive - Rail Ombudsman

Fair enough! The core parts of being an actual "ombudsman" arguably don't necessarily require specifics of the industry, but you would think they would employ subject matter experts to rely upon.
 

Titfield

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My experience of them has been very negative but I shaln't go into details here. I see the creation of a Rail Ombudsman as a huge missed opportunity. I do not think they have many, if any, actual experts among them.

Well reading down the profiles they have some very high level in the furniture and diy industries.

John Peerless - Board member of the British Institute of Kitchens, Bathrooms & Kitchens Installation

Billy Quinn -
Billy has decades of retail and leadership experience having held senior executive and director roles with the Home Retail Group & B&Q, part of the Kingfisher Group.

An active member of the Furniture Makers Livery & Charity,

Fair enough! The core parts of being an actual "ombudsman" arguably don't necessarily require specifics of the industry, but you would think they would employ subject matter experts to rely upon.

Sorry Horizon22 I wasnt trying to do a "me right, you wrong" sort of argument. I do agree with the very valid points you make.

One would expect the Rail Ombudsman to be a mix of lawyers / consumer law experts, rail industry professionals and passenger group representatives in much the same way as Employment Tribunals have three members to give balance and relevant experience.
 

Hadders

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The Rail Ombudsman offices are very near to Stevenage station. I'd be more than happy to pop in and give them some expert advice :E

I believe senior members of this forum have reached out but to no avail....
 

Deltic1961

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I raised a case on Scotrail, filled in all the details and uploaded evidence. Within an hour I had an email back saying my complaint didn't fall within their criteria and it was being forwarded to passenger focus or something like that.

Useless.
 

trenopendo

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Only two examples so far?

You are very lucky to find these examples, to be honest.

What fraction of elegible people submit a Delay Repay claim?
And what sub-fraction appeal, after 10-20 days, a claim that was denied in bad faith?
And of those, what fraction would ask for a letter of deadlock the appeal is mindlessly denied?
And of those, what fraction would take the time to fill a complaint to the Rail Ombudsman?

Conservatively, I'd say < 1% of those abused by TOCs will reach the Ombudsman stage.

A shame that they are in bed with TOCs.
 

Deltic1961

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The thing is that Scotrail constantly refused to address my points of complaint and gave me a deadlock letter without even looking at the issues.

They just wanted it "passed on" and the people who it was passed on to have passed it on too.

The rail industry is not passenger focused in the slightest but seems to think it is invincible. We'll see.
 

robbeech

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You are very lucky to find these examples, to be honest.

What fraction of elegible people submit a Delay Repay claim?
And what sub-fraction appeal, after 10-20 days, a claim that was denied in bad faith?
And of those, what fraction would ask for a letter of deadlock the appeal is mindlessly denied?
And of those, what fraction would take the time to fill a complaint to the Rail Ombudsman?

Conservatively, I'd say < 1% of those abused by TOCs will reach the Ombudsman stage.

A shame that they are in bed with TOCs.
The Ombudsman don’t just deal with delay repay claims that have gone sour.

We know that around 1/3 of eligible people initially claim delay repay.
We don’t really know much other data, but we can work out that most delay repay systems reject anything that isn’t direct train or trains, so missed connections are regularly rejected. Replacement buses are always rejected as there is no timing data, even if the replacement bus is in the timetable. Compound delays are often rejected (first train cancelled, next one ran late and tipped you over the next threshold aswell). So it’s entirely possible that 1/3 of valid claims are rejected. If only half of those people appeal, 1/3 are rejected again, half of those complain and get a deadlock letter, half of those bother to write to the ombudsman and the ombudsman (judging by what we see here) pays out on 10% of claims then all told, the railway is onto a winner. But we knew that anyway.
but seems to think it is invincible. We'll see.
It pretty much is.
If it delays you it simply doesn’t have to pay you delay repay if it doesn’t want to. It can make up a new rule to fool the ombudsman into thinking it is not due.
If it leave you on a platform overnight it doesn’t have to compensate if it doesn’t want. It just makes something up.
If it wants you to pay back every penny of delay repay you’ve ever claimed from them it just has to scare you into thinking they’ll take you to court for fraud and you’ll pay them whatever you ask.
 

deltic

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The Ombudsman was dealing with around 1,000 cases in the last quarter of 2019 of which about 60% were in scope down to about 200 or so now.
 

Deltic1961

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I just find it incredible that Scotrail would rather constantly hand out compensation rather than actually fix the problem with their service. I really don't think anyone in that business genuinely cares what happens as long as they keep getting paid.
 
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