Rail Replacement Bus Services

[Laurencew]

Well, if you want to see a rail replacement bus service as it should be run, go to Merseyside. The current bus replacements between Birkenhead and Liverpool are excellent; a fleet of brand new Arriva Wright's Streetdecks complete with Wi-Fi and charging points. A bus driver friend is full of admiration for the drivers, given the difficulties in terms of height and width restrictions, driving through the 'old' tunnel.
Tickets are checked at both the Birkenhead end and before boarding in Liverpool, typical of the region by amiable and witty staff both from Merseyrail and a local security company. Possibly the only downside is the almost complete lack of shelter at the Liverpool end, opposite Lime Street station.

 

[Butts]

Well, if you want to see a rail replacement bus service as it should be run, go to Merseyside. The current bus replacements between Birkenhead and Liverpool are excellent; a fleet of brand new Arriva Wright's Streetdecks complete with Wi-Fi and charging points. A bus driver friend is full of admiration for the drivers, given the difficulties in terms of height and width restrictions, driving through the 'old' tunnel.
Tickets are checked at both the Birkenhead end and before boarding in Liverpool, typical of the region by amiable and witty staff both from Merseyrail and a local security company. Possibly the only downside is the almost complete lack of shelter at the Liverpool end, opposite Lime Street station.

Blimey, Abellio up here have quite the reverse policy - no ticket checks either end

 

[RJ]

Ah, so in essence he'd been thrown in at the deep end. I do remember one of the blokes looking over the whole operation at one station giving the driver an earful because he made a bit of a mess of the three point turn you mentioned and he was running around with "Not in service" on the display.

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Rail replacement, by natute is being thrown in at the deep end every time, especially in the London area where the route driven changes every weekend. A very welcome challenge to some drivers, an absolute nightmare for others. I try to stay away from buses where the driver can't be bothered to show the most appropriate blind available, even if it is blank!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Not impressed with the bustitutions on Dundee Aberdeen this weekend. No fast direct through services going North all coaches have at least 1 stop. Just sat at Stonehaven for quartr of an hour

friendly staff though.

 

[PHILIPE]

Read a Tweet yesterday from a passenger on an ATW RRB from Warrington Bank Quay to Manchester Picc complaining that the driver had been driving round Manchester for quarter of an hour looking for Piccadilly station and causing some of the passengers to possibly miss their trains..

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Well, if you want to see a rail replacement bus service as it should be run, go to Merseyside. The current bus replacements between Birkenhead and Liverpool are excellent; a fleet of brand new Arriva Wright's Streetdecks complete with Wi-Fi and charging points. A bus driver friend is full of admiration for the drivers, given the difficulties in terms of height and width restrictions, driving through the 'old' tunnel.
Tickets are checked at both the Birkenhead end and before boarding in Liverpool, typical of the region by amiable and witty staff both from Merseyrail and a local security company. Possibly the only downside is the almost complete lack of shelter at the Liverpool end, opposite Lime Street station.

I disagree with you Laurence (see my earlier post).

 

[MonsooN]

I got one between Port Talbot Parkway and Swansea tonight and I have to say it was very efficient and probably only took about 20 minutes longer than it would have done on the train.

Edit: And the bus was a damn site more comfortable than the Voyager I'd spent almost five hours on earlier that day!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Read a Tweet yesterday from a passenger on an ATW RRB from Warrington Bank Quay to Manchester Picc complaining that the driver had been driving round Manchester for quarter of an hour looking for Piccadilly station and causing some of the passengers to possibly miss their trains..

I remember about 10 years back a coach driver from Shrewsbury decided to go down the A49 from Shrewsbury to Leominister and then across the A44 to get to Aberystwyth despite having passengers for intermediate Cambrian stations on board.

 

[313103]

I got one between Port Talbot Parkway and Swansea tonight and I have to say it was very efficient and probably only took about 20 minutes longer than it would have done on the train.

Edit: And the bus was a damn site more comfortable than the Voyager I'd spent almost five hours on earlier that day!

Ahh you took the one that stopped at Neath then. Some buses were going direct to Swansea which point to point would have been about the same time or even quicker.

It was so bad a couple of weeks ago that the buses were arriving at Port Talbot about 10 minutes ahead of the schedule and therefore causing problems for station staff dispatching trains as the passengers would run onto the platform and then accuse the station staff they have missed there train, when in fact they were actually 10 minutes early. Some of the passengers were actually quite abusive about it.

 

[TrenHotel]

On Saturday, the Greater Anglia rail replacement coaches between Newbury Park and Ingatestone were hit by engineering works of their own - roadworks on the A12.

The resulting hold-ups saw my coach - which actually left Newbury Park a few minutes early - arrive just in time to see the connecting train at Ingatestone pull out, messing up the connection for an hourly train at Witham. Gave up and caught a local bus to complete my journey...

 

[Robertj21a]

On Saturday, the Greater Anglia rail replacement coaches between Newbury Park and Ingatestone were hit by engineering works of their own - roadworks on the A12.

The resulting hold-ups saw my coach - which actually left Newbury Park a few minutes early - arrive just in time to see the connecting train at Ingatestone pull out, messing up the connection for an hourly train at Witham. Gave up and caught a local bus to complete my journey...

This, of course, is a key problem for rail replacement buses/coaches - not just the congestion that wasn't expected but also roadworks that might be totally unplanned/urgent.

 

[Bevan Price]

Well, if you want to see a rail replacement bus service as it should be run, go to Merseyside. The current bus replacements between Birkenhead and Liverpool are excellent; a fleet of brand new Arriva Wright's Streetdecks complete with Wi-Fi and charging points. A bus driver friend is full of admiration for the drivers, given the difficulties in terms of height and width restrictions, driving through the 'old' tunnel.
Tickets are checked at both the Birkenhead end and before boarding in Liverpool, typical of the region by amiable and witty staff both from Merseyrail and a local security company. Possibly the only downside is the almost complete lack of shelter at the Liverpool end, opposite Lime Street station.

Yes, it is fairly good, but I think they could reduce the connection time at Birkenhead North by a few minutes, and also reduce the waiting time at Moorfields. Indeed, at Birkenhead North, it might be better if the bus departed as soon as passengers had transferred from arriving trains, rather than have to wait up to 7 minutes for a "timetabled" departure time.

 

[RJ]

On Saturday, the Greater Anglia rail replacement coaches between Newbury Park and Ingatestone were hit by engineering works of their own - roadworks on the A12.

The resulting hold-ups saw my coach - which actually left Newbury Park a few minutes early - arrive just in time to see the connecting train at Ingatestone pull out, messing up the connection for an hourly train at Witham. Gave up and caught a local bus to complete my journey...

I do that replacement service sometimes. Whereabouts on the A12 were the works? When running empty from the west to Ingatestone, I sometimes go via the A13 or M11 then M25 to reach the A12 at Brentwood to avoid all the lights on the A12 - not much good as a diversion if the works are east of there though! That said I'd prefer not to with a belching New Routemaster limited to 47mph, but would with other buses that do 65mph

 

[TrenHotel]

I do that replacement service sometimes. Whereabouts on the A12 were the works? When running empty from the west to Ingatestone, I sometimes go via the A13 or M11 then M25 to reach the A12 at Brentwood to avoid all the lights on the A12 - not much good as a diversion if the works are east of there though! That said I'd prefer not to with a belching New Routemaster limited to 47mph, but would with other buses that do 65mph

Early on, at the Aldborough Road junction. Turn left, hit a traffic jam within a mile.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I discover that next weekend, there will be a replacement bus service on HS1 between Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International. The journey time is exceptionally unattractive as against the train, and I somehow imagine that revenue protection staff will keep a long way clear of it.

But if that section of line is closed for the weekend, does this mean that Eurostar too will be operating a replacement bus service? Has this happened before, and what are the practicalities of it in terms of customs, passport inspection, and so on?

 

[Blindtraveler]

And will they allow pax onto it with a route Non HHs ticket? Seams a cheek to charge the premium for a bustitution

 

[radamfi]

But if that section of line is closed for the weekend, does this mean that Eurostar too will be operating a replacement bus service?

Eurostar looks to be running according to Realtime Trains.

 

[Shunter_69]

The roadworks on the A12 at at the Barley Lane lights and are due to complete just after the weekend blocks finish.

 

[MedwayValiant]

Eurostar looks to be running according to Realtime Trains.

Thanks for that, which causes two further questions into my head.

1. Not strictly relevant but out of idle curiosity, are there any diversionary routes currently authorised for Eurostar if HS1 is closed?

2. Southeastern states on its website that the engineering work is actually between Ashford and Canterbury West.

I could certainly imagine that engineering work might reduce the number of paths available on HS1 and so only Eurostar can be accommodated, but if it's that you'd expect Southeastern to say so. Since they do not say so, is HS1 actually not closed at all, but Southeastern finds it more operationally convenient to put its passengers onto buses? Rather poor if so.

And will they allow pax onto it with a route Non HHs ticket? Seams a cheek to charge the premium for a bustitution

It may seem a cheek, but it's what they will be doing. Which is rather why I suspect that there will be not the slightest attempt to protect revenue on that bus service.

The notion that lower fares should in general be charged for replacement bus services has been around for years, but the railway industry has always said that it can't be done. The only problem with that answer is that to my knowledge Southern has done it in the past. I don't know whether other TOCs have, but it clearly can be done if TOCs want to.

 

[LordCreed]

The notion that lower fares should in general be charged for replacement bus services has been around for years, but the railway industry has always said that it can't be done. The only problem with that answer is that to my knowledge Southern has done it in the past. I don't know whether other TOCs have, but it clearly can be done if TOCs want to.

Perhaps a little different, but when the wall at Dawlish collapsed there was a discount given to anyone booking tickets that required catching a bus between Exeter and Newton Abbot.

 

[londonbridge]

Was once on an RRB between Doncaster and Peterborough, driver got lost and a passenger ended up directing him.

 

[HH]

While I was no great fan of the former First Capital Connect, it used to put RPIs on replacement bus services, and that did prevent some issues arising. I've never seen this on Southeastern; is there any good reason not to do it?

It's particularly hard to understand, given that the current SE MD is Dave Statham, who was formerly MD at FCC.

I'd write to him and make that precise point.

 

[HH]

The notion that lower fares should in general be charged for replacement bus services has been around for years, but the railway industry has always said that it can't be done. The only problem with that answer is that to my knowledge Southern has done it in the past. I don't know whether other TOCs have, but it clearly can be done if TOCs want to.

Generally TOCs hands are tied by the provisions of the Ticketing & Settlement Agreement. In most cases it's a lot (and I mean a LOT) of work to sell tickets at a different price than the regulated one. However, I don't see any such problem around paying compensation. Obviously you get it for bustitution for on-the-day issues, but you don't get anything when it's engineering works, which surely must be wrong.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would say that a bustitution which extends the overall journeytime by 50 percent or more should be entitled to some kind of compensation, even if its a 5 quid RTV handed out by the bus co ordinaters a s pax bord/alite?

 

[HH]

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't get similar compensation as you do from delays that also extend your journey time. The TOCs, after all, get a similar compensation from Network Rail. To be specific it uses the same rates, but a different formula and it's subject to a discount for prior notice. I'd suggest that 50% of the Delay Repay value was fair compensation to customers...

 

[Mag_seven]

2. Southeastern states on its website that the engineering work is actually between Ashford and Canterbury West.

I could certainly imagine that engineering work might reduce the number of paths available on HS1 and so only Eurostar can be accommodated, but if it's that you'd expect Southeastern to say so.

Eurostar websites states that Ashford Int is closed and no E* will be stopping there. Looks like there are still "domestic" SE non HS1 services running through though.

 

[radamfi]

Eurostar websites states that Ashford Int is closed and no E* will be stopping there. Looks like there are still "domestic" SE non HS1 services running through though.

RTT is still showing the train to Marne-la-Vallee on Sunday, which stops at Ebbsfleet and Ashford.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L12402/2017/02/26/advanced

 

[Blindtraveler]

/@HH interesting idea. Doubt the management/finance dept would like it though. I might be easy pleased but a fiver RTV and perhaps a 50 percent off station outlets tocan would make me happy.

 

[D1009]

Thanks for that, which causes two further questions into my head.

1. Not strictly relevant but out of idle curiosity, are there any diversionary routes currently authorised for Eurostar if HS1 is closed?

Eurostar trains have been unable to be diverted since their third rail equipment has been removed.

 

[Stampy]

I'm on a RRB this coming weekend between Preston and Blackpool.....

Will report back my findings!!!!