Rail Replacement Buses for Staff Travel

[Economist]

The official ASLEF guidance is that members should not under any circumstances be travelling on Rail Replacement Buses during the current pandemic. I know of at least one TOC in the south east which has declined to follow this ASLEF guidance. What has the experience of other members been? I was just wondering what the consensus was because I'm tempted to put a few qualified driver applications in once the pandemic clears up a bit and the long term future of rail is clarified, if it turns out that my place is acting contrary not only to ASLEF guidance but also to other TOCs it might be the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.

 

[ComUtoR]

I know of at least one TOC in the south east which has declined to follow this ASLEF guidance.

This has come up before; and about the afforementioned TOC.

You should speak to your LDR for confirmation. I haven't seen any ASLEF memos but there is often a difference between National and Local policy. For it to go through diagrams it would have been agreed by both local reps and company council.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Our place doesn't put drivers on RRBs regardless of pandemic, all non-train travel is by taxi.

Don't think I'd be happy being told to get on a RRB!

 

[Red Devil]

At my TOC no driver or guard for that matter travels by RRB

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Surely a bus is either safe or it isn’t - if it’s deemed safe for a nurse going on their way to work in a hospital to have a bus substitute for a train surely it’s safe for railway staff too?

I’d have thought social distancing was easier in a bigger vehicle like a bus than a taxi?

 

[LowLevel]

We never use replacement buses for staff duty travel, always taxis. As many of those as possible have been deleted too.

 

[the sniper]

Surely a bus is either safe or it isn’t - if it’s deemed safe for a nurse going on their way to work in a hospital to have a bus substitute for a train surely it’s safe for railway staff too?

I’d have thought social distancing was easier in a bigger vehicle like a bus than a taxi?

No one's blaming the nurse for their train being cancelled... With Guards it also comes down to cash handling regs. In most TOCs I know travelling by Rail Replacement Bus isn't a done thing anyway, regardless of Covid.

 

[jamesst]

Nope no traincrew are put on replacement buses at my toc either

 

[driver9000]

The policy of my TOC is that on duty staff are not expected to use rail replacement buses. Staff taxis are used instead and that has nothing to do with the current situation.

 

[MotCO]

Why are staff not expected to use Rail Replacement Buses, even in normal times? If it is good enough for passengers, why is it not good enough for staff?

 

[Liam00086]

Why are staff not expected to use Rail Replacement Buses, even in normal times? If it is good enough for passengers, why is it not good enough for staff?

It’s got nothing to do with it being good enough for one but not the other, if that member of staff needs to be at a certain station by a certain time (So a service can leave)it’s better to Get a taxi as it’s a guaranteed seat, if the bus was full or a member of staff was on it And a passenger needed that seat the member of staff would be expected to get off, this could cause a lot of delays further afield.

 

[notadriver]

A certain TOC expects and diagrams it’s staff to use rail replacement buses which are often very shoddy and driven by drivers who feel they’ve been given the short straw.

ps : I’m a bus driver and have driven rail replacement.

 

[Seehof]

I have been in some TOC supplied taxis as part of my duties and one or two sped ridiculously which resulted in me putting in a formal complaint. My colleagues, on occasions, had the same experiences. I should add never had a problem with the taxis from our depot at York supplied by Station Taxis who have always been reliable, safe and friendly.

 

[LowLevel]

Why are staff not expected to use Rail Replacement Buses, even in normal times? If it is good enough for passengers, why is it not good enough for staff?

It's not a matter of being good enough, it's operationally extremely inconvenient and inefficient in most cases to have staff stuck on a replacement bus. They tend to wander around a lot and have slack timings. Thus if using buses means you need to have 3 crew members to cover the usual work of one it makes sense for the company to spend some money on a taxi. The replacement bus might also not be going to the next location you want your traincrew to be, for example their home depot or another line of route.

Cash regulations also require the storage of revenue equipment and takings in a certain way which is not necessarily achievable on something like a bog standard bus. Locking it in a taxi's boot is fine, chucking it under a coach where anyone at intermediate locations could pinch it or putting it in the shopping stack at the front of a bus isn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A certain TOC expects and diagrams it’s staff to use rail replacement buses which are often very shoddy and driven by drivers who feel they’ve been given the short straw.

Well, there's the issue that needs fixing! If they are unsafe for traincrew they are unsafe for passengers, too, barring the issue of those carrying cash around that has been mentioned (but with no on-board sales by any TOC (?) no member of traincrew is surely carrying cash?)

Personally I'd rather be in a RRB, ideally a bus rather than coach so the windows are open, with distancing applied, than a taxi. A taxi is such an enclosed environment that you're basically guaranteed to catch whatever the driver has even with masks. Only exception would be proper Hackney carriages with the perspex screen and a separate aircon setup for each part of the vehicle.

 

[choochoochoo]

Well, there's the issue that needs fixing! If they are unsafe for traincrew they are unsafe for passengers, too, barring the issue of those carrying cash around that has been mentioned (but with no on-board sales by any TOC (?) no member of traincrew is surely carrying cash?)

Personally I'd rather be in a RRB, ideally a bus rather than coach so the windows are open, with distancing applied, than a taxi. A taxi is such an enclosed environment that you're basically guaranteed to catch whatever the driver has even with masks. Only exception would be proper Hackney carriages with the perspex screen and a separate aircon setup for each part of the vehicle.

I tend to crack open my window in a Taxi right now. The faster moving air outside provides lower pressure than the air inside, so it sucks the contaminated air out.

It's not that the RRBs are unsafely driven, they're inefficiently driven. The poor bus drivers don't usually know the route. Numerous tweets on various TOCs twitter feeds always have passengers on RRBs saying the driver doesn't know where they're going. I've been on a RRB myself where this has been the case (as a passenger not as train crew - always Taxi if I'm crew).

 

[theironroad]

At my toc they'll try to put drivers and guards on a bus each and every time they think they càn whatever the day, whatever the time whatever the sobriety or safety issues with regards other passengers on the bus. Taxis only used when time issues on the roster prevent the above.

Staff welfare and morale has never really been a concern if £ get in the way....

 

[HamworthyGoods]

At my toc they'll try to put drivers and guards on a bus each and every time they think they càn whatever the day, whatever the time whatever the sobriety or safety issues with regards other passengers on the bus. Taxis only used when time issues on the roster prevent the above.

Staff welfare and morale has never really been a concern if £ get in the way....

And if you worked for many Mainland European Operators they’d expect the guard to ticket grip the bus, many European Rail Replacements aren’t the free for all they are here.

 

[185]

I'm sure everyone here is assuming bans on Rail Replacement Buses are for parts of diagrams travelling pass & cut-paste pass rides and *not* a block on residential travel to and from work.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I'm sure everyone here is assuming bans on Rail Replacement Buses are for parts of diagrams travelling pass & cut-paste pass rides and *not* a block on residential travel to and from work.

Yep - if I want to get to work and it's a RRB I have to use it, it's my choice. Very different if I'm travelling whilst on duty.

 

[Boo_]

We did have Arriva wales crew put on RR few years ago. few crew did demanded taxis and got them but many found the RR coaches easy to use as we ran the coaches non stop and they ran on time often they had to wait for taxis. think they did not allow staff with cash to use RR

 

[LowLevel]

And if you worked for many Mainland European Operators they’d expect the guard to ticket grip the bus, many European Rail Replacements aren’t the free for all they are here.

They are a very different world though with a totally different service regime to here. If my job is cancelled due to the line being closed and rail replacements running you can guarantee I will be working trains on a different route Might be different at depots with restrictive route cards I guess but there is always plenty to do here.

 

[PupCuff]

I recall reading about at least one city in Europe (I can't recall exactly where, possibly somewhere in Belgium or Germany?) where the local train conductors were encouraged 'on the side' to learn to drive city buses which were run by the same company. Thus, if there was unplanned disruption on the line, the train could simply stop at a convenient station, the conductor could get the customers off and collect a bus to drive them to their destinations instead, which I thought was a very novel operation.

In respect of traincrew travelling on RRBs whilst on duty, it's a firm "no" at our place too.

 

[Stigy]

Surely a bus is either safe or it isn’t - if it’s deemed safe for a nurse going on their way to work in a hospital to have a bus substitute for a train surely it’s safe for railway staff too?

I’d have thought social distancing was easier in a bigger vehicle like a bus than a taxi?

I don’t think it should be allowed in general, in a non-Covid world either. Buses are often late or don’t show up, so it makes better sense to put train crew in a taxi.

In terms of distancing, I disagree. It’s far easier in a taxi with only a couple of people, where a bus would likely be full up. Also, TOCs can and have been dictating the type of taxi for staff, so they tend to be large MPVs/black cabs, with plenty of space and often a Perspex screen between the taxi driver and passenger.

 

[43066]

Our place doesn't put drivers on RRBs regardless of pandemic, all non-train travel is by taxi.

Don't think I'd be happy being told to get on a RRB!

I agree, especially as you naturally become a target in uniform. If you’re passing on a train, at least you can escape to an intermediate/back cab etc. There’s no such option on a bus or coach.

You’d get a shock if you worked for the TOC the OP does! The same TOC expects staff to pass between London terminals on late night tube trains full of drunks.

Personally I'd rather be in a RRB, ideally a bus rather than coach so the windows are open, with distancing applied, than a taxi. A taxi is such an enclosed environment that you're basically guaranteed to catch whatever the driver has even with masks. Only exception would be proper Hackney carriages with the perspex screen and a separate aircon setup for each part of the vehicle.

We are now supposed to use 7 seater taxis which, in theory, allow for adequate social distancing. Aside from the security issues I mentioned above, RRBs are generally too unreliable/slow for the purposes of conveying train crew within the confines of their diagrams.

 

[craigybagel]

We did have Arriva wales crew put on RR few years ago. few crew did demanded taxis and got them but many found the RR coaches easy to use as we ran the coaches non stop and they ran on time often they had to wait for taxis. think they did not allow staff with cash to use RR

Staff can still be asked to travel on RRBs at TFW, though I'm assuming it's been canned at the moment owing to Covid. It's only allowed during the daytime (I can't remember the exact cut off time) for security reason, and it's rare it actually happens (usually the timings involved mean that taxis are needed instead), but it's normal enough here.

Owing to Covid, use of Taxis is being kept to an absolute minimum, and when they are used they must be either a London style cab with a screen or a minibus big enough to provide social distancing.

 

[tiptoptaff]

You’d get a shock if you worked for the TOC the OP does! The same TOC expects staff to pass between London terminals on late night tube trains full of drunks

Wow. That is unacceptable! I know we all moan about our TOCs at times, but I'm quite glad we've got the arrangement we have!

 

[whoosh]

Yes, I'm guessing the very same SouthEastern that is keen to recruit qualified drivers, but not having much luck? It's not just the lower pay, but stuff like late night tube and replacement bus rides with the track-suited "innit" brigade, that puts people off.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think the main point is being missed. ALSEF advice is not to travel in a RRB during this pandemic. @Economist 's TOC is either have an agreement with ASLEF and their local reps are allowing it to happen or they are doing this without ASLEF sanction and their local reps are not challenging the TOC. Either way, this is a bad showing for ASLEF and for the TOC. Why issue the advice then turn a blind eye when it is ignored ?

For those that think ASLEF are all powerful and control the TOCs this is clearly an example where they have zero power or they are capitulating or just kissing the ring behind closed doors.

 

[Mak1981]

Well, there's the issue that needs fixing! If they are unsafe for traincrew they are unsafe for passengers, too, barring the issue of those carrying cash around that has been mentioned (but with no on-board sales by any TOC (?) no member of traincrew is surely carrying cash?)

Personally I'd rather be in a RRB, ideally a bus rather than coach so the windows are open, with distancing applied, than a taxi. A taxi is such an enclosed environment that you're basically guaranteed to catch whatever the driver has even with masks. Only exception would be proper Hackney carriages with the perspex screen and a separate aircon setup for each part of the vehicle.

Its not just cash thats the problem, its the guard and drivers kit bag as well, if that goes missing completely or certain items from either are missing the the train cant move, is it worth the risk?

Also most tocs have special arrangements in place at the moment for taxi's during covid, ie people carriers to allow social distancing to be maintained and dedicated taxis and paying for extra cleaning etc