Rail & Sail tickets to/from Belfast via Holyhead & Dublin

[IrishDave]

As I understand it, it is theoretically possible to buy through Rail & Sail tickets from (in my case) Brighton to Belfast, routed via Holyhead and Dublin. Try as I might, however, I cannot get any booking engines to give me such a route: neither TrainLine or RailEasy will give routes via Holyhead (though they will give routes via Cairnryan), and no other booking engines seem to cope with a destination of Belfast at all.

So, I have two questions that I'd be very grateful if anyone can answer:

1. Is there something I'm missing in using the booking engines that would allow me to book such a through ticket?
2. In theory, such tickets can be booked from a ticket office. Which would be the best ticket office at which to try and book such a journey — London Euston, perhaps? Does anyone have any experience of booking Rail & Sail tickets in person?

I heard a suggestion that the problem may be because the Irish railway times have dropped out of the database, and so, even if you can put in a destination of Belfast, the booking engine can only send you via Cairnryan. Would that have any effect on whether a ticket office would be able to book the ticket manually at a ticket office? As far as I know I would definitely need a reservation for the boat, and I would probably also want a seat reservation at least for London-Holyhead.

 

[BigCj34]

I tried the trainline mobile site, putting Belfast Central appeared to work.

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
Booking Sailrail tickets is often a lesson in patience and cracking the hidden sequences needed...

At the moment the way that seems to work is go to www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk and select your journey details; Brighton (BTN) to Belfast Central (BFC). Go to Advanced options and add via DFP if you want Irish Ferries or DPS if you want a Stena ferry. Press Go and you'll get a bunch of options. You should be good to go.

If you at a station, any should be able to sell them. Make sure you know exactly the sort of ticket you are after and ask for it by name. I've bought quite a few from various smaller stations in Sussex to Belfast and whilst it takes a while to do, it normally works.

SailRail tickets are great value but it's value that seems to be reserved for those who persevere in trying to book them! It never seems to remain contant for long and you have to keep abreast of the latest methods...
(For a *really* difficult challenge try finding a way to reliabily book SailRail via Birkenhead - Belfast!)

Hope this helps,
Mr Toad

 

[najaB]

(For a *really* difficult challenge try finding a way to reliabily book SailRail via Birkenhead - Belfast!)

Tell me about it, I've been told that they don't exist even when showing one to a ticket clerk.

 

[Hadders]

A ticket office is often the best bet for SailRail in my experience. Thankfully I live near the VTEC travel centre at Stevenage who are generally excellent at this sort of thing

 

[IrishDave]

At the moment the way that seems to work is go to www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk and select your journey details; Brighton (BTN) to Belfast Central (BFC). Go to Advanced options and add via DFP if you want Irish Ferries or DPS if you want a Stena ferry. Press Go and you'll get a bunch of options. You should be good to go.

Unfortunately that does the same thing as TrainLine and RailEasy, which is to accept the query but ignore the via — I did exactly as you suggested and put in BTN-BFC via DFP and, in spite of the via, it's only giving me itineraries (and tickets) via Cairnryan.

If you at a station, any should be able to sell them. Make sure you know exactly the sort of ticket you are after and ask for it by name. I've bought quite a few from various smaller stations in Sussex to Belfast and whilst it takes a while to do, it normally works.

SailRail tickets are great value but it's value that seems to be reserved for those who persevere in trying to book them! It never seems to remain contant for long and you have to keep abreast of the latest methods...
(For a *really* difficult challenge try finding a way to reliabily book SailRail via Birkenhead - Belfast!)

Fair enough — I'm hoping Brighton station might be able to manage them, but given the booking engines online are silently failing and sending me via Cairnryan even when putting in via Dublin, I'm concerned they'll have the same problem. Could booking office staff override an itinerary and sell a ticket even if their machine says there are no trains?

 

[najaB]

Could booking office staff override an itinerary and sell a ticket even if their machine says there are no trains?

They could sell the ticket, but you wouldn't have the ferry reservation - which is compulsory.

 

[bangor-toad]

Unfortunately that does the same thing as TrainLine and RailEasy, which is to accept the query but ignore the via — I did exactly as you suggested and put in BTN-BFC via DFP and, in spite of the via, it's only giving me itineraries (and tickets) via Cairnryan.

What date/dates are you looking at?
I can see trips via Dublin on dates over the next few weeks. It's not impossible that there are some dates which are just difficult.

If others can see a valid route on the day you want then it will be possible for Brighton ticket office to sell it.
Good luck,
Mr Toad

 

[IrishDave]

They could sell the ticket, but you wouldn't have the ferry reservation - which is compulsory.

That's what I feared. Could they manually do a ferry reservation?

What date/dates are you looking at?
I can see trips via Dublin on dates over the next few weeks. It's not impossible that there are some dates which are just difficult.

If others can see a valid route on the day you want then it will be possible for Brighton ticket office to sell it.

Aha, thank you! Yes, I can get the outbound times to appear for the next few weeks, though the return (i.e. from Belfast) still doesn't seem to want to work whatever I do... I'm looking to go to Belfast on Dec 21st, and back on Dec 28th — maybe the Irish rail times are only in the database up to the timetable change on Dec 10th?

 

[Hadders]

That's what I feared. Could they manually do a ferry reservation?

A competent ticket clerk would find a workaround.

 

[bangor-toad]

Aha, thank you! Yes, I can get the outbound times to appear for the next few weeks, though the return (i.e. from Belfast) still doesn't seem to want to work whatever I do... I'm looking to go to Belfast on Dec 21st, and back on Dec 28th — maybe the Irish rail times are only in the database up to the timetable change on Dec 10th?

Ah.
Another bit of SailRail wierdness. That's quite normal...

A workaround would be to get SailRail tickets to Dublin - which are available now for the dates you want. Then buy a seperate Dublin-Belfast ticket. The Enterprise train tickets have advanced purchases for about £9 each way or there's a coach between Dublin and Belfast at far more frequent intervals for even lower fares.
I think that would work out at a little bit less than the through tickets to Belfast.

Personally I'd get the Sailrail ticket to Dublin and then the non stop coach up to Belfast.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[Hadders]

Virgin Trains will sell the ticket with no workaround needed. Just need to specify Belfast Central and one way journey.

 

[IrishDave]

Ah.
Another bit of SailRail wierdness. That's quite normal...

A workaround would be to get SailRail tickets to Dublin - which are available now for the dates you want. Then buy a seperate Dublin-Belfast ticket. The Enterprise train tickets have advanced purchases for about £9 each way or there's a coach between Dublin and Belfast at far more frequent intervals for even lower fares.
I think that would work out at a little bit less than the through tickets to Belfast.

Personally I'd get the Sailrail ticket to Dublin and then the non stop coach up to Belfast.
Cheers,
Mr Toad

Where do you get those cheap Enterprise tickets? I looked on the Irish Rail site, but they just had everything at €17.99; and on the Translink/NIR website it only seems to allow you to book singles or returns starting from NI...?

I'm not a huge fan of coaches, so I'd rather get the Enterprise (especially since I haven't used it in about 15 years!) — but thanks for the suggestion.

Virgin Trains will sell the ticket with no workaround needed. Just need to specify Belfast Central and one way journey.

Before the timetable change on 10th Dec, yes, fine. But I put in Brighton-Belfast via Dublin Ferryport for Thurs 21st Dec and got the following itinerary:

10:28 Brighton-London Victoria 11:25 (Southern)
11:25 London Victoria-London Euston 12:10 (Tube)
12:10 London Euston-Chester 14:13 (Virgin Trains)
14:24 Chester-Holyhead 16:14 (Arriva Trains Wales)
17:15 Holyhead-Dublin Ferryport 19:15 (Irish Ferries)
20:55 Dublin Ferryport-Holyhead 00:20 (Irish Ferries)
05:14 Holyhead-Warrington Bank Quay 07:39 (Arriva Trains Wales)
07:49 Warrington Bank Quay-Glasgow Central 10:38 (Virgin Trains)
11:04 Glasgow Central-Ayr 12:05 (Scotrail)
12:35 Ayr-Cairnryan Port 13:50 (Bus)
15:30 Cairnryan (Port)-Belfast Port 17:45 (Stena Line)
17:45 Belfast Port-Belfast Central 19:15 (walk)

11 changes and 32 hours, 47 minutes... do you think Stena Line would accept a ticket routed "Irish Ferries via Holyhead"?!

A competent ticket clerk would find a workaround.

Thanks. I think I shall try Brighton station and see how it goes, and if that fails book to Dublin and book separately for the Enterprise.

 

[Hadders]

Ah, I was looking before the timetable change. Seems there's a problem with the Irish Rail trains not being in the system as you can book to Dublin ok.

 

[gazthomas]

Irish Ferries’ website allowed me to do Brighton to Dundalk (last station in the Republic) via Dublin without issue (putting aside the weird listing of GB railway stations) - just over €100 retun for your dates.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Ah, I was looking before the timetable change. Seems there's a problem with the Irish Rail trains not being in the system as you can book to Dublin ok.

I think you could be right there, Ive got no problem off our STAR machine up until the timetable change routing via Holyhead.

 

[bkhtele]

A ticket office is often the best bet for SailRail in my experience. Thankfully I live near the VTEC travel centre at Stevenage who are generally excellent at this sort of thing

Agree. Euston is good. Clerk booked ticket plus ferry reservation. Then booked train journey separately. Recommend "standby" fare which is flexible.

 

[bkhtele]

If all fails could booking office issue with ferry reservation to Dublin & then issue an excess to Belfast Central?

 

[Flying Snail]

Where do you get those cheap Enterprise tickets? I looked on the Irish Rail site, but they just had everything at €17.99; and on the Translink/NIR website it only seems to allow you to book singles or returns starting from NI...?

€17.99 is the cheapest Irish Rail fare, Translink offer fares as low as £5 but as you found out only offer single/return tickets originating in NI. Ridiculous discriminatory nonsense TBH and considering that amount of road competition on the route probably bad business as well.

If all fails could booking office issue with ferry reservation to Dublin & then issue an excess to Belfast Central?

What would that pile of coupons look like? Would Belfast-Dublin be written on any of them? Irish Rail and NIR staff aren't going to know what NR excess tickets are and if there is nothing clearly showing the tickets are actually valid for a Dublin-Belfast trip then there could be problems using them.


Dave, have you tried booking via the ferry companies? If you cannot get the tickets through the Rail system the ferry operators may be able to issue them.

Stena take phone bookings, Irish ferries used to but may no longer.

For Stena they direct to trainline for UK bookings but have a phone line for anyone wanting lounge or cabin bookings, they may facilitate your sail rail booking as well. I do not know what way they issue these tickets, if they use the GB rail booking platforms they will probably have the same issue as well.

For Irish customers they have no web booking so take all sailrail bookings by phone. I am unsure if they post these or only allow pick-up at the ferry terminal. They may not post to UK and may not issue ticket starting/ending in Belfast. They do not use the Rail booking engine so the problem with needing an unavailable itinerary won't come up, all Irish issued tickets are handwritten CIV coupons.

UK:08445 762 762 https://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferries-to-britain/rail-sail
IRL: 00 353 1 907 5388 https://www.stenaline.ie/ferries-to-britain/rail-sail

 

[bkhtele]

I have never had any difficulty with Irish rail or NIR enterprise staff. Excess ticket looks like a National Rail ticket so staff will be familiar. Reservation on the Enterprise: I canot remember if specific train or seats were allocated.
Best bet is ticket office let us know if you have any luck with ferry companies.

 

[najaB]

Excess ticket looks like a National Rail ticket so staff will be familiar. Reservation on the Enterprise: I canot remember if specific train or seats were allocated.

I've caught the Enterprise a couple of times, neither time was my ticket given anything more than a cursory glance.

 

[IrishDave]

Thanks for all your replies. A quick update: I just tried booking the rail and sail fares at Brighton station this evening, without success. The clerk was apologetic, but ultimately his system didn't allow him to book the tickets without reservations, because the ferry reservation is compulsory. He offered to book me to Dublin, rather than Belfast, but I declined. I shall try again at London Euston at the weekend.

In the meantime, does anyone know of anyone I can complain to about the Irish Rail times (apparently) not being in the database beyond the timetable change? My suspicion is that it's just an oversight, but I don't know *whose* oversight it is.