Rail tickets up whiles petrol price down

[hawaii2468]

It is said that the rail tickets in 2013 would be 4.2% more expensive than 2012 averagely while the petrol price just saw a drop from 137.9 ppl to 131ppl. Unless travelling to London , why should people use train services?

Let's compared the public transport ( trains) and cars (for adults without any concession ):

1. Convieniency Cars win
In terms of frequency, coverage and timewise cars are more reliable outside London where railway stations are often only in town centre and the frequency is about every 15--30 minutes.

2. Cost Cars win
Especially when more than 2(including 2) passengers travelling together and when same day, off peak time travel not available and not going into London.

3. Comfortablity Cars win
Most UK trains are very comfortable but sometimes you can't get a seat , or sometimes have to wait for the trains on platforms in cold for more than 20 minutes. After arriving home station , there might still be about 15 minutes walk or more ,again in cold or wet condition...

I am a big big public transport fan but UK public transport is not very encouraging although it has done well.

 

[Goatboy]

Even I'm getting bored of the fare debate now. Can we not just pretend fares are reasonable for a bit to give everyone on here a break?

 

[6Gman]

The OP has also missed a MASSIVE plus-point for rail, which is that you can relax on a train in a way you cannot (should not!) in a car when driving.

After a day's shopping or an evening at a concert it's much nicer to let someone else do the driving - especially in the dark/ rain/ fog/ snow .....

 

[Simon11]

Please produce a graph showing average fare growth and petrol prices for several years, then your arguement about recent fare increases being higher than petrol prices to not be a long term trend.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Even I'm getting bored of the fare debate now. Can we not just pretend fares are reasonable for a bit to give everyone on here a break?

I don't think this is a repeat of the usual fares debate. The OP is making the slightly different point that while rail fares are going up, the cost of motoring is going down - which hardly seems fair, and is a twist on the fares debate which hasn't really been heard that much.

 

[Goatboy]

I don't think this is a repeat of the usual fares debate. The OP is making the slightly different point that while rail fares are going up, the cost of motoring is going down - which hardly seems fair, and is a twist on the fares debate which hasn't really been heard that much.

The cost of motoring isn't trending down. The cost of motoring is more akin to a ratchet - it goes up a lot, down a bit, up a lot. All thats happened is that the global oil price has 'stablised' a bit at around $110 and as a result, petrol has obviously fallen from the levels it was at midway through last year.

Don't get used to it. It's only going up long term which is why its really important we have a carrot to get people out of cars and into public transport BEFORE stratospheric oil prices start doing serious damage to the economy.

 

[Bedpan]

It all depends on where you're going, when, why, and for how long. For example its not cheaper by car if you're going shopping in a city centre and taking the car would involve substantial car parking charges. Even if it is cheaper to take the car, if you're going for an evening out you might fancy the train so that you can have a drink or two and not have to worry about having to drive home.

Then there's the weather to consider, and the frequency of the train service to where you're going, and how easy it is to get there both by car and train.

So I don't really think it's something that you can generalise about. I must admit though that I've tended to take the car far more often when going to the London suburbs since FCC banned the use of off peak tickets on even their half empty services between 16.30 and 19.01, other than that I would normally choose the train when it provides a reasonable alternative to the car in terms of cost, travel time and convenience.

 

[HH]

Petrol is only part of the price of running a car. Insurance costs have increased a lot, for instance. Goatboy is right; the long-term trend is for motoring costs to go up faster than rail fares.

 

[VauxhallandI]

City to City you can't beat the train.

I'm going to the rugby in March and have just booked my FC return KX to Waverley.

As far as I am concerned the break starts at KX!!

 

[455driver]

Do we need yet another circular thread about the fare rise?

Take it up with your MP or government, we have got the hint that people dont like it when fares go up, luckily my council tax, gas and electric have all gone down in the last year to counteract the rise!

Oh hang on a minute!

 

[LexyBoy]

The trend over the last twenty years or so has seen in increase in both rail fares and the cost of running a car. The total cost of car ownership has fallen on the same terms once initial purchase is taken into account. So if you run a clapped out second hand car, yes motoring costs are rising. For most it's getting cheaper.

I'm not sure that car always wins on convenience, a lot of drivers seem to get more aggravated by their journey than train passengers. It's not always more flexible either, you might only have a certain time parking paid for - and forget that impromptu pub trip. Whilst I don't drive, many people who do still do the same commute as me by train - whilst it's about the same timewise, one can relax on the train whereas I imagine driving could be a drag after a day at work.

 

[thelongestroad]

I'm staff so my train travel is free. But after a long early turn (or indeed with most shifts), I hate driving home and especially prefer the train, and being able to relax on the way home.

So it's not all financial..

 

[VauxhallandI]

The trend over the last twenty years or so has seen in increase in both rail fares and the cost of running a car. The total cost of car ownership has fallen on the same terms once initial purchase is taken into account. So if you run a clapped out second hand car, yes motoring costs are rising. For most it's getting cheaper.

I'm not sure that car always wins on convenience, a lot of drivers seem to get more aggravated by their journey than train passengers. It's not always more flexible either, you might only have a certain time parking paid for - and forget that impromptu pub trip. Whilst I don't drive, many people who do still do the same commute as me by train - whilst it's about the same timewise, one can relax on the train whereas I imagine driving could be a drag after a day at work.

Some people do both for their commute and probably only see the negatives of both!

I'm lucky to have a car for a luxury on top of my rail commute, others are not so lucky.

 

[andykn]

The trend over the last twenty years or so has seen in increase in both rail fares and the cost of running a car. The total cost of car ownership has fallen on the same terms once initial purchase is taken into account. So if you run a clapped out second hand car, yes motoring costs are rising. For most it's getting cheaper.

I'm not sure that car always wins on convenience, a lot of drivers seem to get more aggravated by their journey than train passengers. It's not always more flexible either, you might only have a certain time parking paid for - and forget that impromptu pub trip. Whilst I don't drive, many people who do still do the same commute as me by train - whilst it's about the same timewise, one can relax on the train whereas I imagine driving could be a drag after a day at work.

Although motoring costs haven't risen by as much as rail fares over the last 10-20 years the cost of a single occupancy car journey still isn't that favourable compared with rail.

I regularly travel from London to Norwich to work and rarely pay more than 50 quid return, booking only a few days in advance.

It would be a quite small and uncomfortable car that would only cost that much once you take all the per mile costs like tyres, clutch, brakes etc into consideration.

 

[Clip]

Petrol still around £1.39 by me. Although it has dropped from £1.42 last august.


Massive savings eh

 

[Goatboy]

You must live somewhere quite remote then as its 127.9 in many places now.

 

[Clip]

No, London.

 

[90019]

Currently sitting at 129.9p at the Esso that I pass on the way to and from work.
I think the Shell down the road is also at 129.9, with the supermarkets nearby being a mix of 127.9 or 128.9 (other than ASDA at 128.7).

 

[MattRobinson]

I'm reading these posts with interest: I'm currently considering purchasing a car for my commute to Sheffield. It's slightly more expensive than catching a train, but it's way more convenient. Instead of getting up at 6am for a 9am lecture, I can get up later and arrive at a time which isn't stupidly early (like 8.15). Almost without fail, my train is an old and battered 14x which leaks and is generally pretty rubbish and it takes an hour, not including walking at either end. I know petrol costs a bomb, but so does the train.

Another major cost saving is on my journey to the railway. Total cost by public transport is just shy of £15, but petrol there and back is less than £6.50, ie less than half the cost!

I've worked the cost out over the next four years, and a car (minus the initial cost) is nearly £1000 cheaper for me. And much more convenient.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FGW_DID]

On my shifts that start early or finish late, I drive to work, at those times it takes me about 25 mins from house to station.

On the shifts that do allow it (especially if the misses needs the car) I'll use public transport (bus & train) but I'm leaving the house 2 hours before my shift starts just so I can ensure the bus which is invariably late gets me in with enough time to walk to the Railway Station to catch a train which gets me to work prior to shift starting.

Public transport may be cheaper, especially with my staff pass but not half as convenient as the car ( and I don't have to be subjected to people's choice of music or inane phone conversations!)

 

[Monty]

Petrol still around £1.39 by me. Although it has dropped from £1.42 last august.


Massive savings eh

Quite, I want to know where I can get fuel for 1.31 per litre!

 

[Clip]

Quite, I want to know where I can get fuel for 1.31 per litre!

Madness isn't it. Proper north/south divide

Was chatting with the missus about this the other day and we really would get rid of the car if she didn't have mad start and finish times.

 

[The Ham]

I'm reading these posts with interest: I'm currently considering purchasing a car for my commute to Sheffield. It's slightly more expensive than catching a train, but it's way more convenient. Instead of getting up at 6am for a 9am lecture, I can get up later and arrive at a time which isn't stupidly early (like 8.15). Almost without fail, my train is an old and battered 14x which leaks and is generally pretty rubbish and it takes an hour, not including walking at either end. I know petrol costs a bomb, but so does the train.

Another major cost saving is on my journey to the railway. Total cost by public transport is just shy of £15, but petrol there and back is less than £6.50, ie less than half the cost!

I've worked the cost out over the next four years, and a car (minus the initial cost) is nearly £1000 cheaper for me. And much more convenient.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Is the £15 the turn up and go fare or are you using a season ticket, as if you are not costing it on a season ticket (even a weekly one) you could be paying a lot more than you need to if you are going in most weekdays.

 

[Goatboy]

No, London.

Then do a better job of shopping around. The Moke just off the M25 near St Albans is 128.9 atm IIRC.

http://www.petrolprices.com/

As you can see, the average price in the UK is some 7p lower than the price you think is the best you can find locally.

 

[MattRobinson]

Is the £15 the turn up and go fare or are you using a season ticket, as if you are not costing it on a season ticket (even a weekly one) you could be paying a lot more than you need to if you are going in most weekdays.

Turn up and go- it's a journey I undertake on average once every two weeks so season ticket makes no sense.

The maths for university works out as being £8.33 per day by train (£457.90 for a season ticket from 1/10/12 to 14/12/12 divided by the number of days I use it (55)) but by car to Meadowhell and then tram is £4.41 in petrol + £2.17 for the tram (unirider divided by every day at university) = £6.58. I know it's relatively simplistic not to include costs like insurance, tax, servicing, etc but I have for my spreadsheet that I took my original costs from.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Paule23]

Let's compared the public transport ( trains) and cars (for adults without any concession ):

1. Convieniency Cars win
In terms of frequency, coverage and timewise cars are more reliable outside London where railway stations are often only in town centre and the frequency is about every 15--30 minutes.

This is very subjective and will depend on the journey. I travel a lot for work and in the past 15 months have only used my car for a work journey on 2 occasions. My main offices are in city centres, where the cost of parking is prohibitive and traffic makes the car journey longer than the train journey, including getting to from the station. Fr longer journeys, the convenience of the train, the fact it is more relaxing and I can work, mean the train wins. However, for leisure the car usually wins due to the flexibility of being able to drive direct to my destination and being able to carry everything I need for two young children.

2. Cost Cars win
Especially when more than 2(including 2) passengers travelling together and when same day, off peak time travel not available and not going into London.

This again depends. Too get to work, it is cheaper for me by train due to the £10 to £15 cost of city centre parking (vs £5 rail fare). However when travelling to the in laws, the car is cheaper ( as long as I have passengers).

3. Comfortablity Cars win
Most UK trains are very comfortable but sometimes you can't get a seat , or sometimes have to wait for the trains on platforms in cold for more than 20 minutes. After arriving home station , there might still be about 15 minutes walk or more ,again in cold or wet condition...

I disagree here, I find trains very comfortable and relaxing, and the walks to/from stations a great way of getting much needed exercise. Someone once told me there is no such thing as bad wether, just bad clothing!

Overall I don't think rail trumps car or vice versa, it very much depends on your needs and purpose of journey. I will always try and take the train over long distances, even ahead of flying, but that is a personal choice. I see the benefits of both and do no think general statements about one being better than The other stand up to scrutiny.

 

[142094]

but by car to Meadowhell and then tram is £4.41 in petrol + £2.17 for the tram (unirider divided by every day at university) = £6.58. I know it's relatively simplistic not to include costs like insurance, tax, servicing, etc but I have for my spreadsheet that I took my original costs from.

But without the costs of insurance, road duty, maintenance and depreciation, then you are never going to work out the correct cost of running a car for that particular journey.

Part of the problem of trying to encourage modal shift from the car to any other form of transport is that car owners generally only see the cost as the amount of fuel used per mile, and don't include the other related costs.

 

[90019]

Though the cost of things like insurance and VED will be there whether you use the car or not.

 

[rdwarr]

Perhaps the debate would be more valid if we ran all our trains on petrol.

 

[Ediswan]

Then do a better job of shopping around. The Moke just off the M25 near St Albans is 128.9 atm IIRC.

True, but be careful there. They certainly were in the habit of having a more expensive grade on many of the pumps. So it was always worth checking the price on the pump before filling up.