Railway in Cheshire unable to cope with extra traffic caused by council subsidy bus cuts

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by jcollins, 5 Dec 2018.

  1. Confused52

    Confused52 Member

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    Very funny, I said "50% on the child season ticket price"

    Here is the relevant offer https://d2cf7kiw5xizhy.cloudfront.n...-Catholic-High-School-Under-16s-Full-Term.pdf

    You will see that the headline says 50% off the child season price for a full year, but the small print says 50% based on daily child fares for a full year.
     
  2. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    That hell hole of a "school" is in Cheshire West & Chester.
     
  3. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The Scholar's season tickets were introduced to give an incentive to parents to buy a ticket for the whole academic year, hence decreasing fare evasion by schoolkids. They are only valid on weekdays during term times which is part of the reason they are cheaper than standard child season tickets.
     
  4. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    School transport is the responsibility of the council covering the area the child lives in, not the one the school is in. So Trafford Council are responsible for those in the Altrincham area travelling to Knutsford Academy and Cheshire East are responsible for those in the Knutsford area travelling to St Nicholas.
     
  5. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Find a better school is my advice to them.
     
  6. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Don't know what it's like now but richer families from Mobberley used to send their children to St Nicholas if they got get a place even if they weren't Catholic due to Knutsford High School (now Knutsford Academy) being so bad. Part of the reason for it being so bad was the local Trafford grammar schools got all the good pupils and sent the rest to Knutsford High.
     
  7. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    ...why not get the parents to pay for it - or are the latest designer trainers or xbox games more important than adequate transport and education ?
     
  8. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    :lol: I think over half of the academy's pupil's are from trafford.
     
  9. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Quite a lot of people going to the hell hole are from poor families.
     
  10. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Indeed. Enough families struggle with the school uniform provider being a John Lewis subsidiary and requiring school branded blazer, jumper, tie, plus full PE kit and aprons to be purchased from them, including some who live on Longridge, Knutsford (where there's some overflow social housing for those who can't get one in Wythenshawe.)
     
  11. Confused52

    Confused52 Member

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    I couldn't find a bus to Knutsford on the school bus page of the school or on the Traffic Commissioners Database. What has the head organised that costs so much I wonder?
     
  12. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    There should be a timetable for a service operated by Walkers/Holmeswood Coaches on there somewhere.
     
  13. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Considering the Chief executives of Northern Rails salary is 10 times that of the average salary within the area that this school resides. How many pairs of trainers is he getting compared to a kid from this school
     
    Last edited: 6 Dec 2018
  14. embers25

    embers25 Established Member

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    This year we have the below which run fast from Clapham to Salisbury and Salisbury-Sherborne.

    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q03614/2018/12/21/advanced
    http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q03616/2018/12/21/advanced
     
  15. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    Bet they still have expensive trainers and games. Can't see why people should expect to have their lives subsidised by others.
     
  16. talltim

    talltim Established Member

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    They do pay for it, they buy their kids tickets the same as other passengers
     
  17. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Does that also apply to those using TfL bus services? ;)
     
  18. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Or all Northern rail passengers and staff considering the Northern Ticket price receives a subsidy of 25p per km.
     
  19. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I said TfL bus services because of where @Mutant Lemming's location is. With fares being inconsistent on Northern services and some lines having much better patronage than others I don't think it's accurate to say 'all Northern passengers' as there's no evidence that no Northern routes are profitable, very different to the very low flat fares on TfL bus services.
     
  20. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Ah makes sense.
     
  21. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    Those are odd services, probably not for the Sherborne school kids I suspect, probably more to deal with the extra passengers heading home after work [although I suspect they will be lightly loaded and probably end up carrying some passengers for Woking/Basingstoke "all the diesels call at Woking/Basingstoke" who don't notice the calling pattern].
     
  22. Zooty

    Zooty Member

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    The small print makes no sense. It is 50% off the appropriate child season ticket price.

    They are valid seven days a week for the full duration of the ticket; i.e. everything except the summer holiday for an annual ticket.
     
  23. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    St Nicholas is a 11-18 school. There are under 16 and 16-18 season ticket options, the latter says 30% discount on the adult daily fares. It's strange they don't put the prices for the autumn season ticket and the full academic year season ticket forms.

    What's also interesting is a reference in the small print to tickets being issued from Greenbank ticket office. (There isn't a ticket office at Greenbank!)

    On checking the current T&Cs are for those opting for the termly option Christmas, Easter and Summer holidays aren't included. For those opting for the full academic year option Summer holidays aren't included.
     
  24. al78

    al78 Member

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    Really? You know them all personally do you?

    Sometimes providing subsidies benefits more than just those who receive the direct benefit of the subsidy. It is to do with social benefits and social costs. If it were all as simple as we shouldn't subsidise others lives, then scrap all government subsidy of the rail network and jack the fare prices up to cover the costs, why should those who never use trains subsidise those who do?
     
  25. Confused52

    Confused52 Member

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    Thanks, I managed to miss that! So the Fare to Knutsford on the bus is £2.60 Single/£4.15Return and Lostock Gralam is £2.10 Single/£3.10Return. Not quite adult but definitely taking the mickey. The route is not exactly rational either as it goes to Moulton via Sir John Deanes then off to Knutsford Bus Stn/Crosstown. It looks as if the folks with no alternative as far as Moulton get fleeced and the prices deter Knutsford kids so the route is irrational and looks a bit of a bodge. However the railway does not need to offer even deeper discounts does it with a Knutsford child SDR at £3.30. The Head needs to try again and Northern are behaving like idiots once more.
     
  26. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    I think the bus fare has actually been lowered then, I'm sure it used to be higher than what some operators charge for adult day tickets (currently around £5.50.) It used to be a separate bus for Moulton/Kingsmead to the Knutsford one so possibly the operator decided the fares were too high when they merged the routes.

    It's also worth remembering the school is only 5 minutes walk from Greenbank station and traffic is very heavy through the Castle area of Northwich in the morning peak so the train has the incentive of being faster if the train times tie in with the school day, so the bus needs a cost incentive if pupils are to use it ahead of a train.
     
  27. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Not sure that "hell hole" schools, trainers or X-boxes are terribly relevant.

    Parents choose to send their children to a distant school. Ultimately it is then their responsibility to ensure they can get there!

    Problem for the railway is that devoting resources (even if such resources exist#) to a relatively short distance flow of heavily discounted fares is an expensive operation.

    [Please don't point out that I've described the same thing as both "distant" and "short distance". Each is correct in its context.]

    # Could be a sensible use of Pacers rather than sending them for scrap. I'll get my coat ...
     
  28. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    People choose to work in distant jobs perhaps it is their responsibility to get themselves there. Yet short trains.on crush loaded commuter services is unacceptable
     
  29. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    Not quite sure what point you're making here, but - for example - what's to stop parents, through the school or the PTA or similar, hiring a bus from a local operator to run to the school(s)?
     
  30. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    In some cases pupils are there because it is the nearest school or because the nearest school is oversubscribed.

    Northern knew how many people used that train but decided carting fresh air on an extra Buxton service was more important than the afternoon train having 4 carriages. Did Northern write to the PTA to give them notice of doing that? If not why should they be the ones who have to make a last minute arrangement in the middle of a term?
     

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