Rather large out of court settlement

[Greenback]

I thought it was a good way of illustrating how, in an attempt to change the picture, people often lose sight of the little things that actually affect most of our lives more.

While someone's lunch going cold may seem to be something very slight, it's worth remembering that being unable to get back into a nice warm building to eat your paella may have a significant impact on someone's day. Probably much more of an impact than whatever the protest was about.

I also found it a good way of highlighting how Mr Brand isn't quite as unaffected as he would like to think by public money and capitalism in general.

 

[Flamingo]

Given that he's faredodging scum, I don't think that Mr Brand has too much to say that I'd be interested in. He's about as funny as a road accident.

Millionare or not, would you like to see your daughter arrive home with him?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/russell-brand-admits-jumping-barrier-3430385

 

[CC 72100]

Given that he's faredodging scum, I don't think that Mr Brand has too much to say that I'd be interested in. He's about as funny as a road accident.
[/url]

[sacrasm] Yeah but it's all about sticking in to them big corporations by making a stand isn't? [sarcasm]

 

[jon0844]

Can't wait to see him join this forum asking for advice about a pending prosecution in the future.

 

[yorkie]

What percentage of the travelling public are affected every day by incorrect decisions or actions by rail staff, then? 5%; 10%; 25%?

It depends on the line/station/route/TOC and ticket(s) held. Many people on this forum would rather not pay the non-discounted Anytime fares routed Any Permitted, and therefore will be using good value fares that some staff will think are restricted/invalid when they aren't.

The likelihood of being incorrectly told a valid ticket is invalid is going to be much lower on one of your trains, than at say, the gateline at Canada Water, which is the sort of location that Martin has experienced many, many problems (including being detained).

Try to, for example, break your journey overnight on the outward portion of a ticket at the stations served by your trains on one part of the route and you are, based on experiences of forum members, more likely to experience problems than not if the gateline is manned.

 

[bb21]

Given that he's faredodging scum, I don't think that Mr Brand has too much to say that I'd be interested in. He's about as funny as a road accident.

Millionare or not, would you like to see your daughter arrive home with him?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/russell-brand-admits-jumping-barrier-3430385

I'm not sure who I dislike more: Russell Brand or Nigel Farage, or even Nick Griffin, who has become very much more moderate these days.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm not sure who I dislike more: Russell Brand or Nigel Farage, or even Nick Griffin, who has become very much more moderate these days.

Nick Griffin might have been kicked out of the BNP but he's still a racist scum bag with racist views.

 

[67018]

I don't think you've been reading the Fares and Disputes sections that closely if that is what you think, because my experience is it is generally the other way round.

What percentage of the travelling public are affected every day by incorrect decisions or actions by rail staff, then? 5%; 10%; 25%?

I read the Fares and Disputes section often. My conclusion is that a small minority of people are affected by the incorrect actions of staff, given the number of problems as a percentage of the huge number of journeys that have no such problem - although some areas seem to have a specific problem which is often down to policy or training deficiencies. Also that the percentage of passengers whose behaviour leaves something to be desired is higher; and finally that a far higher proportion of staff go out of their way to be helpful and provide good service, including those whose posts on here have hugely improved my understanding of how the railway works and my respect for what they do.

 

[Flamingo]

It depends on the line/station/route/TOC and ticket(s) held. Many people on this forum would rather not pay the non-discounted Anytime fares routed Any Permitted, and therefore will be using good value fares that some staff will think are restricted/invalid when they aren't.

The likelihood of being incorrectly told a valid ticket is invalid is going to be much lower on one of your trains, than at say, the gateline at Canada Water, which is the sort of location that Martin has experienced many, many problems (including being detained).

Try to, for example, break your journey overnight on the outward portion of a ticket at the stations served by your trains on one part of the route and you are, based on experiences of forum members, more likely to experience problems than not if the gateline is manned.

fair enough, but in my experience I am much more likely to come across somebody trying to misuse a "cheaper" ticket than having an unlikely but valid ticket. As a rough estimate, about half of these insist I'm wrong and the ticket is valid. Some of these do end in tears.

 

[Haywain]

fair enough, but in my experience I am much more likely to come across somebody trying to misuse a "cheaper" ticket than having an unlikely but valid ticket. As a rough estimate, about half of these insist I'm wrong and the ticket is valid. Some of these do end in tears.

You really must try not to get emotional about this.

 

[Flamingo]

You really must try not to get emotional about this.

I never said I was the one in tears

 

[Chrisgr31]

It depends on the line/station/route/TOC and ticket(s) held. Many people on this forum would rather not pay the non-discounted Anytime fares routed Any Permitted, and therefore will be using good value fares that some staff will think are restricted/invalid when they aren't.

The likelihood of being incorrectly told a valid ticket is invalid is going to be much lower on one of your trains, than at say, the gateline at Canada Water, which is the sort of location that Martin has experienced many, many problems (including being detained).

Try to, for example, break your journey overnight on the outward portion of a ticket at the stations served by your trains on one part of the route and you are, based on experiences of forum members, more likely to experience problems than not if the gateline is manned.

But even so it is likely to be a tiny percentage of the travelling passengers. If asked to guess as a member of the public from what I see on trains or at ticket barriers I would guess that under 1% have any issues with a dispute about the validity of the ticket they hold. There may be more that don't actually hold a ticket!

At the same time I suspect those that know the rule book well and therefore buy good value but unusual ticket combinations are going to be questioned a lot more which is what you imply. Mind you at the same time these knowledgeable people are probably only 1% of the travelling public.

 

[yorkie]

Most people are making short journeys and buy a simple origin to destination ticket, which nearly all staff will understand.

A much smaller amount of people will do longer journeys, and of those many will either be on full-fare tickets valid any train and will use an obvious route, so no issues there, or use an Advance for which the validity is obvious.

So, of course the number of problems is going to be a small percentage.

But people on this forum are perhaps more likely to be doing longer journeys than average, and are perhaps less prepared to pay the hugely expensive Anytime/Any Permitted fares, and will be using valid tickets that staff may not be as familiar with, hence a greater percentage of problems being experienced.

There are certain journeys I could say you could try to make, for which you'd be highly likely to encounter problems, despite the tickets being clearly valid to anyone who actually looks up what the rules are in reality.

As I said before it very much varies by factors such as region, with there being much more likelihood of valid tickets being rejected in the London area (especially LO).

Also many people just pay up and do not challenge incorrect charges or being told "I'll let you off this time"

 

[Flamingo]

Just to add to this, in nearly ten years of working Intercity trains, I can count on one hand (I can only remember three or four) passengers with "unusual" combinations of tickets that I had to let pass as I was unsure of the validity, so I obviously gave them the benefit of the doubt. However, it is rare to work a train that does not stop at Didcot Parkway coming out of London without finding at least one passenger with a ticket/season ticket split at Didcot Parkway - My record is ten (separate, not a party) on one train, on a day when there was no disruption. I would say the number that abuse this loophole are way in excess of the numbers that get pulled up on an esoteric reading of the routing guide and obscure easements.

Just to add, verbal abuse is pretty common off these passengers, assaults less so but has happened - which may be why I am inclined to show zero tolerance to them when I find them, as numerous announcements will have been made on departure from London and arrival at Reading.

 

[alastair]

Just to add to this, in nearly ten years of working Intercity trains, I can count on one hand (I can only remember three or four) passengers with "unusual" combinations of tickets that I had to let pass as I was unsure of the validity, so I obviously gave them the benefit of the doubt. However, it is rare to work a train that does not stop at Didcot Parkway coming out of London without finding at least one passenger with a ticket/season ticket split at Didcot Parkway - My record is ten (separate, not a party) on one train, on a day when there was no disruption. I would say the number that abuse this loophole are way in excess of the numbers that get pulled up on an esoteric reading of the routing guide and obscure easements.

Just to add, verbal abuse is pretty common off these passengers, assaults less so but has happened - which may be why I am inclined to show zero tolerance to them when I find them, as numerous announcements will have been made on departure from London and arrival at Reading.

But just for clarity,if one(but not both)of the split tickets was a season then the train doesnt have to stop at Didcot?

 

[maniacmartin]

But just for clarity,if one(but not both)of the split tickets was a season then the train doesnt have to stop at Didcot?

That is correct. There has to be exactly one season involved for a 19c split not needing to call at Didcot

 

[PermitToTravel]

Flamingo posted an interesting story about that a couple of years ago here

Apropos of nothing, I had a guy a few weeks ago on a train from Paddington (Pad)-Bristol Temple Meads (Bri), he had split tickets at Didcot to Bath, the train didn't stop at Didcot, ching, £16.40 (I know it should have been £32, but he wasn't arguing so that was the cheapest for that time of the day).

After Bath, I am walking through again (unusual, I know), and I spot the same guy. I stop and say "I thought your ticket was to Bath?", his reply was "Yea, I have a Bth-Bri season ticket, I'm going to Bri". So, as his overall journey was Pad-Bri and he had a season-ticket in the mix, the split at Didcot was actually legal in his case, so I did him a refund.

Now, if I hadn't spotted him again, he had a valid combination, but hadn't told me the full story, so I had incorrectly charged him. He could have come on here moaning that "The stupid guard didn't know condition 19.c."

Now, another question to argue over, if he had been going to Bath, even though he was in possession of a season ticket, I would say that split would NOT have been valid, as his journey was not to Bri, so his season ticket would have been irrelevant.

 

[RJ]

At the same time I suspect those that know the rule book well and therefore buy good value but unusual ticket combinations are going to be questioned a lot more which is what you imply. Mind you at the same time these knowledgeable people are probably only 1% of the travelling public.

Probably an underestimation of the problem. If people buy a point to point ticket and do all their journey in one go, they tend to be fine - the NRE journey planner can just about cope with this type of journey enquiry. As soon as they start wondering about what they're allowed to do in terms of break of journey, which routes they are allowed to take or the times they're allowed to travel, that's where the problems with quality of information start. I've watched some people being given some absolutely BS advice when asking perfectly reasonable questions about what their ticket allows them to do.

 

[455driver]

[sacrasm] Yeah but it's all about sticking in to them big corporations by making a stand isn't? [sarcasm]

[not sarcasm]
Yep, just like one of those same corporations (with their unique way of being funded, ie taxing everyone whether they use their products or not) that made him a millionaire in the first place!

[Not sarcasm!]

I am with Pink Bird on this, he aint funny and he aint clever and I have never, ever found him remotely interesting!

 

[Flamingo]

Flamingo posted an interesting story about that a couple of years ago here

I'd forgotten that!

 

[yorkie]

I'd forgotten that!

I'd either forgotten it, or hadn't read it (probably the former!), but I have to say that's very impressive.
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But just for clarity,if one(but not both)of the split tickets was a season then the train doesnt have to stop at Didcot?

Indeed. The relevant part of NRCoC 19 that allows you to do this is as follows (my bold):

....one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

NRCoC 19 is very wordy but when you look at that particular bit, it's quite clear

For a comprehensive answer, see our Fares Guide 1.6 Split Ticketing

 

[jon0844]

I'd either forgotten it, or hadn't read it (probably the former!), but I have to say that's very impressive.

I've had an RPI cancel PFs after realising that first class was declassified (it being me that told him when he reached me). Annoying thing is that while it was obviously correct to do so, those people who had been given the PF were of the belief it WAS first class and that they simply didn't want to pay.

But I guess you can't penalty fare someone simply because they didn't know they were actually okay, by luck!