Red Ballast in Scotland

[MK Tom]

Simple question here - why do Scottish railways used this red/pink ballast rather than the grey ballast used everywhere else?

 

[najaB]

Simple question here - why do Scottish railways used this red/pink ballast rather than the grey ballast used everywhere else?

It's due to our natural socialist tendencies.

Actually, I think it is because red granite is more common up here than it is down south. Cloburn Quarry used to be a main source of ballast, not sure if they still are.

 

[snowball]

I imagine it's coincidence that roads in Lanarkshire, where that quarry is, used to have red surfaces, from the use of red colliery waste material in the surfacing.

 

[rebmcr]

Red ballast has reduced tax paid at the refinery, so it's not for general consumer use.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Mineralogically it is higher iron oxide content that causes the redness.

 

[Ploughman]

Red ballast has reduced tax paid at the refinery, so it's not for general consumer use.

Wait till the Ministry pull you over for a check for the Red stuff.

 

[AndrewE]

Mineralogically it is higher iron oxide content that causes the redness.

I don't think iron has anything to do with it. It's felsite, a fine-grained intrusive volcanic rock that happens to be red because of the mineralogy, but not necessarily iron compounds..

 

[johnnychips]

It is caused by the recrystallisation of Irn Bru that has passed through non-retention tank train toilets.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I don't think iron has anything to do with it. It's felsite, a fine-grained intrusive volcanic rock that happens to be red because of the mineralogy, but not necessarily iron compounds..

Well I do. I know it is felsite and the red colour comes from traces of iron. Color comes from transition elements d electron structure - in this case iron.

 

[rebmcr]

It is caused by the recrystallisation of Irn Bru that has passed through non-retention tank train toilets.

Amazing!

 

[najaB]

Amazing!

I think you mean Phenomenal.

 

[kentuckytony]

Laughed til I cried. I'm glad me mum and her whole family was from Scotland.
But me gran woulda boxed me ears for watchin' those!

 

[QueensCurve]

I imagine it's coincidence that roads in Lanarkshire, where that quarry is, used to have red surfaces, from the use of red colliery waste material in the surfacing.

Not just Lanarkshire. 35y ago the A9 on a Auchterarder to Perth section looked very rosy. Likewise the A85 Perth to Dundee.

 

[QueensCurve]

It is caused by the recrystallisation of Irn Bru that has passed through non-retention tank train toilets.

Now that is getting too silly.

 

[snowball]

Not just Lanarkshire. 35y ago the A9 on a Auchterarder to Perth section looked very rosy. Likewise the A85 Perth to Dundee.

Well if we're listing places where red road surfacing was used, it was once common in Manchester. When there was a 2+3-lane tidal flow system in Upper Brook Street, the central reversible lane was surfaced in black and the other four lanes in red.

 

[route:oxford]

Wait till the Ministry pull you over for a check for the Red stuff.

Just wait until you see the looks on their faces when you refuse to allow them to return the drawn and tested sample to your tank...

 

[QueensCurve]

Well if we're listing places where red road surfacing was used, it was once common in Manchester. When there was a 2+3-lane tidal flow system in Upper Brook Street, the central reversible lane was surfaced in black and the other four lanes in red.

Indeed was the Mancunian Way a bit on the red side?

It was certainly very slippery.

 

[D6975]

The red stone used to be used as a platform surface too, Garelochead springs to mind as one of them.

 

[D Foster]

Meanwhile - back at ballast...

Everywhere else is absolutely not all grey. There's at least six different main colours in the Independent Lines around the back of Crewe station - including pink and green. (And there's no re-crystallisation of Irn Bru going on there).

Wherever you go in the country the ballast colour is always simply a consequence of what material is used and where it is sourced - plus degradation and whatever lands on it.

Technically - and others will know far more about this than I do - different grades of route (according to weight and speed of traffic for a start) get different grades of ballast material. Naturally the heaviest routes get the hardest stone that wears best. More lightly used lines get less expensive less strong material. All this is adjusted according to local conditions - especially drainage.

Given the weight of ballast it is also natural that the nearest local sources of the correct material are used with the result that there are often large "patches" over which one colour will tend to predominate. then again, when a line has a change of route grading or a quarry runs out a new colour or colours may be introduced - leading to a mix for some time.

Just to add colour stone not used in one job may be run out to top up other areas rather than be taken back as part loads to the quarry - or a different quarry.

That's the simple version.

 

[QueensCurve]

Meanwhile - back at ballast...

Everywhere else is absolutely not all grey. There's at least six different main colours in the Independent Lines around the back of Crewe station - including pink and green.

I don't recall that from my journeys on the Crewe Independent Lines in Summer 1985. Any photos?

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Meanwhile - back at ballast...

Everywhere else is absolutely not all grey. There's at least six different main colours in the Independent Lines around the back of Crewe station - including pink and green. (And there's no re-crystallisation of Irn Bru going on there).

Wherever you go in the country the ballast colour is always simply a consequence of what material is used and where it is sourced - plus degradation and whatever lands on it.

Technically - and others will know far more about this than I do - different grades of route (according to weight and speed of traffic for a start) get different grades of ballast material. Naturally the heaviest routes get the hardest stone that wears best. More lightly used lines get less expensive less strong material. All this is adjusted according to local conditions - especially drainage.

Given the weight of ballast it is also natural that the nearest local sources of the correct material are used with the result that there are often large "patches" over which one colour will tend to predominate. then again, when a line has a change of route grading or a quarry runs out a new colour or colours may be introduced - leading to a mix for some time.

Just to add colour stone not used in one job may be run out to top up other areas rather than be taken back as part loads to the quarry - or a different quarry.

That's the simple version.

All NR ballast conforms to the same standard and is granite; the days of limestone ballast and blast furnace slag are long past in new work. The only variation in specification for different track categories is in the depth of ballast provided and the option to use ballast-cleaned ballast on low track categories.

In the northwest there are three main ballast colours, one each for Penmaenmawr, Shap and Mountsorrel

 

[QueensCurve]

In the northwest there are three main ballast colours, one each for Penmaenmawr, Shap and Mountsorrel

here is a speciment of Shap Granite. Can anyone illustrate Penmaenmawr, or Muntsorrel?

 

[MK Tom]

Thanks for the replies everyone! So why does Scotland use felsite? Is it just because it's locally sourced? Seems especially odd given Scotland's connection with granite.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Felsite ... granite.

A distinction without a difference, given that one is a felsic intrusive igneous rock and the other is a fine-grained matrix of felsic materials, typically of extrusive origin.

 

[najaB]

A distinction without a difference, given that one is a felsic intrusive igneous rock and the other is a fine-grained matrix of felsic materials, typically of extrusive origin.

Which my limited understanding of mineralogy and geology translates as "Same thing, only different." Would that be a fair summary?

 

[AndrewE]

Intrusive means it was injected between other rocks, so stayed underground and warm for longer and grew bigger crystals. Extrusive usually cools quicker and has smaller crystals (or even none, like obsidian.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Leicestershire has diorite deposits, a different rock to granite:

Diorite:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diorite

Diorite (pronunciation: /ˈdaɪərˌaɪt/[1][2]) is an intrusive igneous rock composed principally of the silicate minerals plagioclase feldspar (typically andesine), biotite, hornblende, and/or pyroxene. The chemical composition of diorite is intermediate, between that of mafic gabbro and felsic granite. Diorite is usually grey to dark-grey in colour, but it can also be black or bluish-grey, and frequently has a greenish cast.

and
http://geoscenic.bgs.ac.uk/asset-ba...6326&index=381&total=1000&view=viewSearchItem
and
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/232843

Penmaenmawr is microdiorite, a smaller crystal version of similar rock:
http://www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/science/geology/microdiorite

Microdiorite is a medium-grained intrusive igneous rock. It contains crystals that are smaller than grains of rice, which are interlocking and randomly oriented. It is dark grey or greenish brown.
Like diorite, microdiorite forms from magmas that do not contain much quartz (silica) or the light coloured minerals that make up granite. The crystals are smaller than those in Diorite, indicating that the magma cooled more quickly.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As Joseph Locke says, any rock will do for ballast as long as it is hard enough. It also needs to maintain a roughly cuboidal shape when crushed. What is used depends on what is available at the right price, and I believe that in the southeast ballast comes in from Norway or maybe even Scotland by ship.

Penmaenmawr was originally owned by a director of the LNWR who made sure that he profited by more than just his direct remuneration!

 

[Liam]

Parts of the A90 are pink, the sction from Cramond Bridge to the Forth Road Bridge and a few bits north of Brechin. Didn't motorway hard shoulders used to be pink too, or was that paint? The roads around Burntisland were pinky/orange too, but that was because of Bauxite.

 

[snowball]

Didn't motorway hard shoulders used to be pink too, or was that paint?

They originally did in Lancashire (and sometimes elsewhere in NW England) and in central Scotland, and possibly some other places. When the M6 was extended north from Lancaster, the hard shoulders were red in Lancashire, then yellowish in Westmorland, then red again in Cumberland.

Sir James Drake, then county surveyor of Lancashire, says in his book Motorways, page 101,

"The hard shoulders ... are paved, and the surface sealed. The practice in Lancashire is to use a bituminous sealing material called 'Schlamme' with an added red pigment to provide additional contrast with the carriageway."

More details of hard shoulder construction and surfacing are given on page 161.

 

[Liam]

They originally did in Lancashire (and sometimes elsewhere in NW England) and in central Scotland, and possibly some other places. When the M6 was extended north from Lancaster, the hard shoulders were red in Lancashire, then yellowish in Westmorland, then red again in Cumberland.

Sir James Drake, then county surveyor of Lancashire, says in his book Motorways, page 101,

"The hard shoulders ... are paved, and the surface sealed. The practice in Lancashire is to use a bituminous sealing material called 'Schlamme' with an added red pigment to provide additional contrast with the carriageway."

More details of hard shoulder construction and surfacing are given on page 161.

Thanks, very interesing.

 

[Trog]

I think Penmaenmawr stone is blueish in colour and tends to be a bit less cubical in shape than some of the other ballasts.

Nuneaton, Loughborough and Meldon stone were I think all quite fine grained but could be told apart by the fact that they came with pink, brown or green dust.

Ballast was also brought in by ship from Glensanda in Scotland this tended to be in slightly larger and rounder as opposed to flat sided lumps, and had a white and pink specked look to it.


As for the use of different grades of ballast 28mm tunnel ballast was occasionally used on lines where manual maintenance was more likely, up until about 2000. When it suddenly became too difficult to supply.