Redhill Station - Extra Platform

[Deepgreen]

That will be just a main aspect, with a subsidiary to gain access to Redhill Loco and hopefully down the Up Redhill torwards Easrlswood North ladder.

Yes - I was thinking that there'll be a crossover connection between platforms 2 and 0 at the north end - which there won't, of course.

 

[Sunset route]

Getting our first look at the signalling diagram alterations, some bits look good some not helpful and some bits just puzzling with the new layout.

 

[Deepgreen]

Getting our first look at the signalling diagram alterations, some bits look good some not helpful and some bits just puzzling with the new layout.

That sounds like a recipe for problems!

 

[Sunset route]

That sounds like a recipe for problems!

Maybe, just depends on the future timetables. There are very rarely perfect solutions to most things in life, what you gain in one hand you lose with the other, the same goes for track and signalling layouts.

 

[hwl]

Maybe, just depends on the future timetables. There are very rarely perfect solutions to most things in life, what you gain in one hand you lose with the other, the same goes for track and signalling layouts.

They probably reflect to how things might work when the southern end eventually gets rebuilt...

 

[Deepgreen]

I noticed the new gantry is now up at the north end of the station to permit operation of the new facing crossover in due course.

 

[MarkyT]

They probably reflect to how things might work when the southern end eventually gets rebuilt...

Perhaps. I have updated my diagram a little. It's not complete, requiring a little further detail on bridges and plain line speed. I also speculated on what might be useful as a final layout when the south end track gets renewed and resignalled.

Here it is:
http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

 

[Sunset route]

Perhaps. I have updated my diagram a little. It's not complete, requiring a little further detail on bridges and plain line speed. I also speculated on what might be useful as a final layout when the south end track gets renewed and resignalled.

Here it is:
http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

Looks reasonably close to the signalling diagram alterations, I can't think of any differences from memory, without taking pictures of the red copies.

 

[Deepgreen]

Perhaps. I have updated my diagram a little. It's not complete, requiring a little further detail on bridges and plain line speed. I also speculated on what might be useful as a final layout when the south end track gets renewed and resignalled.

Here it is:
http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

Thanks MT - you have the approach line speed from the north as 90mph - currently it's 80 - is it proposed to increase post-works?

 

[MarkyT]

Thanks MT - you have the approach line speed from the north as 90mph - currently it's 80 - is it proposed to increase post-works?

My mistake. I have corrected the latest version. The speed drops from 90 to 80 just London side of Merstham station on the down, then there's a 40/70 differential commencing on approach to the new signal gantry. There are no changes planned for the existing plain line speeds as far as I know.

http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

 

[Minstral25]

My mistake. I have corrected the latest version. The speed drops from 90 to 80 just London side of Merstham station on the down, then there's a 40/70 differential commencing on approach to the new signal gantry. There are no changes planned for the existing plain line speeds as far as I know.

http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

There are a lot of very slow approaches to the platforms at Redhill (15/20 mph). Is that normal for similar stations or due to the weak infrastructure?

 

[MarkyT]

There are a lot of very slow approaches to the platforms at Redhill (15/20 mph). Is that normal for similar stations or due to the weak infrastructure?

Partly the geometry of the junctions, particularly the Guildford line divergence which is both very close to the south end of the platforms and a tight curve. Also it is a 'steam age' track layout largely unaltered from mechanical signalling days 'fossilised' into the present signalling system and thus difficult to change at subsequent renewals.

 

[Minstral25]

Partly the geometry of the junctions, particularly the Guildford line divergence which is both very close to the south end of the platforms and a tight curve. Also it is a 'steam age' track layout largely unaltered from mechanical signalling days 'fossilised' into the present signalling system and thus difficult to change at subsequent renewals.

Thanks - understand

 

[Minstral25]

Just looking again at the suggested new Redhill layout for future plans. Could the point that currently fouls platform 1 be moved back towards Gatwick so that Platform 1 could be made a through platform again?

Then you wouldn't need platform 2 for northbound services so I thin the whole flow could be made much better?

 

[hwl]

Just looking again at the suggested new Redhill layout for future plans. Could the point that currently fouls platform 1 be moved back towards Gatwick so that Platform 1 could be made a through platform again?

Then you wouldn't need platform 2 for northbound services so I thin the whole flow could be made much better?

But you would still have the overlap issue at the northern end of the P1/2 island unless you rearranged the trackwork to the north of the station again.

 

[Sunset route]

But you would still have the overlap issue at the northern end of the P1/2 island unless you rearranged the trackwork to the north of the station again.

There was never an overlap issue at the London end of platforms 1&2, only in some designers mind, whereby they 3 fictitious arrives from the south at the same time?

 

[DelW]

There's been considerable progress on the new platform, with precast platform units now in place and most of the back fence up. There is an exit to Ladbroke Grove (steps down largely hidden behind the Readypower backacter), which Mistral25 said earlier would be an emergency exit.

To the north there has been less change, but there seem to be more cables lying in the down cess, and it looks as though a cable duct has been installed across the line (near first lamp-post).

Some large concrete bridge beams and one or more sets of precast stairs were delivered to the site a couple of weeks ago, and are presumably now stored awaiting installation in a future possession.

 

[387star]

Will there be faster line speeds ?

The crossover into Redhill on the up is 15mph yet oddly this extends for the length of the platform where it is completely straight track before rising to 25 on the other end. 25 isn't obtained obviously the train crawls at 15 to clear it

 

[MarkyT]

Will there be faster line speeds ?

The crossover into Redhill on the up is 15mph yet oddly this extends for the length of the platform where it is completely straight track before rising to 25 on the other end. 25 isn't obtained obviously the train crawls at 15 to clear it

I refer you to my diagram here:
http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

No significant speed changes are planned. Future junction reconfiguration and resignalling work at Redhill South Junction (What's Next?) might allow a swifter run-in to platform #0 from the Brighton direction, maybe as fast as 30 or 40MPH.

 

[Deepgreen]

Will there be faster line speeds ?

The crossover into Redhill on the up is 15mph yet oddly this extends for the length of the platform where it is completely straight track before rising to 25 on the other end. 25 isn't obtained obviously the train crawls at 15 to clear it

The 15 limit is, however, not observed - trains almost always depart at 25+. The speed limits are very odd - the up and down crossovers at the immediate north end of the station have 30 and 40 limits respectively, but have exactly the same geometry, at least the the naked eye, and any tiny differences can't account for a 10mph difference.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The 15 limit is, however, not observed - trains almost always depart at 25+. The speed limits are very odd - the up and down crossovers at the immediate north end of the station have 30 and 40 limits respectively, but have exactly the same geometry, at least the the naked eye, and any tiny differences can't account for a 10mph difference.

Got a speed gun or accurately calibrated speed measuring device?

 

[bengley]

Will there be faster line speeds ?

The crossover into Redhill on the up is 15mph yet oddly this extends for the length of the platform where it is completely straight track before rising to 25 on the other end. 25 isn't obtained obviously the train crawls at 15 to clear it

It's a common misconception that the speed through the platform is 15. It is not - the speed increases to 20 straight after the points. It's not clear in the sectional appendix, but the speed is carried from the Down Reading.

 

[MarkyT]

It's a common misconception that the speed through the platform is 15. It is not - the speed increases to 20 straight after the points. It's not clear in the sectional appendix, but the speed is carried from the Down Reading.

That is what I'd deduced from various sources, and I tried to show it on my diagram.

http://www.townend.me/files/redhill.pdf

From Reading today it is 20MPH to #1 and #2 and that limit will also apply from Reading to #0 when complete via the new connection through the old sidings area. It is only the connections between all platforms and Brighton that are limited to 15MPH, and departures from any platform towards Reading, due to the limits imposed by geometry of various turnouts, including the one leading from #3 over the long flat crossing.

 

[Minstral25]

Not directly Redhill but part of the local infrastructure. Local MP has announced today that Network Rail will provide the funds to develop the design for platform 3 at Reigate. Doesn't mean that Platform 3 is imminent but at least starting on the road to become an actual project.

 

[MarkyT]

Not directly Redhill but part of the local infrastructure. Local MP has announced today that Network Rail will provide the funds to develop the design for platform 3 at Reigate. Doesn't mean that Platform 3 is imminent but at least starting on the road to become an actual project.

Here is my sketch of that idea: http://www.townend.me/files/reigate.pdf

 

[DelW]

The barrier between the platform 1 track and the location of the new platform 0 loop has now been removed leaving the area apparently clear for tracklaying, and the platform 0 starter signal is in place.

At the station building, the (presumed) lift structure is being clad in brickwork, and to the left of that are new stairs to platform level. Probably these are the precast stairs delivered last month - a large crane was operating at the station last weekend which may have installed them. I'm unsure whether the old station buildings are to be replaced at this stage or just adapted, since the full-scale redevelopment seems to be in abeyance.

[O/T] Redhill is a hot place for crane operations this week, a large (500t) mobile is occupying London Road to remove the bigger tower crane from within the new Sainsbury's development.

 

[tsr]

I don't believe there are any plans to do anything significant to the ticket office or existing platform buildings during these works (or the large remaining portion of the ridiculous shrubbery on the embankment between the Princess Way car park and Platform 0, which must be the shabbiest and stupidest thing to have left in situ, because it will be really quite awkward to remove at some later point!).

The lift shaft being used to access Platform 0 is simply the upper portion of the newer shaft which has so far only connected the ticket office hall to the station subway. The lift will serve an additional level, which was always the plan - before the lift shaft was completed in its original guise, a doorway for the upper level of Platform 0 was created, then blocked up straight away. A new passageway structure (in the style of the one directly beneath it) was craned in last weekend, and this allow access from the lift shaft to the south end of the new platform.

There will also be further tweaking of the subway (again, something which really should have been properly renovated either already or in this project). There will be a sharp dog-leg at the top of the stairs from the ticket office, heading up another flight to the new platform, parallel to those presently used to access the island platform area.

The long-term Solum Regeneration plan to rebuild the station ticket office and concourse, add small shops and a Waitrose, and build masses of flats over the whole lot, appears to have somewhat disappeared off the radar. I am assured that the rear entrance and staff messroom will be rebuilt, roughly per Solum's proposed plans, "at some point". I'm really not sure when that will be.

 

[DelW]

Ah, thanks, that makes more sense than putting in a second lift, so presumably the building being clad in brick is just one of the new platform-level buildings.

There will be rather a contrast between the new areas and the existing facilities, which are looking somewhat shabby by comparison.

 

[Minstral25]

As TSR says the rebuild of the ticket office/ mess rooms was always part of the Solem regeneration but as Waitrose pulled out to pursue better opportunities on the Council car park in Reigate, the scheme will now go through a complete planning process again so is years away.

 

[387star]

Anyone know latest ? Heard something gone wrong with the improvement works