Reduced capacity at Wembley stadium due to engineering works - has anything like this happened before?

[DarloRich]

they are like a big red flashing light on top of your head alerting anyone in the vicinity that you're not a genuine fan. In fact, I'd make it a lifetime stadium ban, not just -100 points

Exactly - total whopper wear. Football tourist. Shameful. License revoked.

 

[BennyD99]

Just a little bit of information...

Southend took 20000 to Cardiff in 2005 (LDV Vans Final).

Southend also took just 6000 to Cardiff two months later (League 2 Play Offs).

Southend took 32000 fans to Wembley in 2013 (JPT Final).

Southend took 25000 fans to Wembley in 2015.

The belief was over 30000 fans this time around for a few reasons.

1 - The club are under new ownership (as of 2024) and with this, many fans have returned to the club after staying away due to the poor show of the previous chairman.

2 - The club are riding the crest of the wave. They were 16th in the table a few months ago but some terrific performances have catapulted them into the play offs.

3 - The general fell good factor has returned to the club (combination of reason 1 and 2) and football fans are realising what is on their doorstep. Not the prima Donna of the premiership that's rammed in the faces.

4 - This is a game to get the club back to the football league. Due to the severe mismanagement, Southend found themselves relegated out of the football league. This is the clubs biggest game in many, many years. Both financially but status, of course the town want to be part of the success story.

In Oldhams case, their first visit to Wembley since 1990. They have not been to the new Wembley so again this is going to bump the crowd.

It's all about opinions now but it's the lack of accountability that the National League have taken which is causing some unrest. They have blamed TfL without blaming them directly by saying they booked Wembley 'last year'.

It could've easily been Forest Green in the final who didn't even sell out their 3800 home seats for the semi final, but it was Southend - the same Southend who also only secured their spot on the last day of the season.

I feel that the powers that be took a chance on smaller teams making it to the final and it has back fired massively.

 

[Puffing Devil]

How many points do I get for staying to the bitter end of Halifax losing 7-0 away at Macclesfield, on a freezing cold day, in the driving rain, in an uncovered away end?

Less than doing the same for watching Grimsby draw 1-1 at the same end in the driving snow on Boxing Day.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In Oldhams case, their first visit to Wembley since 1990.

Fairly sure they were there in April 1994 (FA Cup Semi final).

 

[SuspectUsual]

Less than doing the same for watching Grimsby draw 1-1 at the same end in the driving snow on Boxing Day.

You scored a goal! Luxury!!

 

[AlterEgo]

Fairly sure they were there in April 1994 (FA Cup Semi final).

Indeed they were - the replay was at Maine Road.

 

[BennyD99]

Fairly sure they were there in April 1994 (FA Cup Semi final).

I meant 1990s! My bad.

 

[DarloRich]

as I suspected it would be the capacity has been increased to 50k.

The capacity for the National League play-off final has been increased to 50,000, the Mayor of London's office has confirmed.

Southend United are due to kick off against Oldham Athletic on Sunday for a prized place back in the English Football League.

Southend vs Oldham National League play-off final capacity upped

Wembley Stadium increases ticket numbers following a backlash by fans and politicians.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AF91]

....so why choose a weekend when an event that has been scheduled months in advance to do engineering works, it's bad from TFL.

Most engineering work is planned over a year out. Poor planning from whoever sets the National League schedule.

 

[AndyHudds]

Most engineering work is planned over a year out. Poor planning from whoever sets the National League schedule.

Maybe it's poor planning from TFL? The National League stated the final was booked a year in advance, either one of them are lying or there has been a serious communication breakdown between the FA and TFL over communicating that a final was booked and that also engineering works are booked that coincide with the stadium usage. Anyway, common sense has prevailed and ticket allocations have been increased.

 

[najaB]

Maybe it's poor planning from TFL? The National League stated the final was booked a year in advance, either one of them are lying or there has been a serious communication breakdown between the FA and TFL over communicating that a final was booked and that also engineering works are booked that coincide with the stadium usage.

There is a post earlier in the thread by member bluegoblin7 which says that they had the works in their calendar for about 18 months. This sounds about right for planning major works.

 

[BennyD99]

The problem is the National League didn't have the foresight of the two largest clubs reaching Wembley.

They communicated to Wembley, who in turn communicated to TfL that the attendance for this final wouldn't top 40000, suggesting that they felt two smaller supported clubs would reach it.

That didn't happen and their was no contingency plan in place.

 

[AndyHudds]

The problem is the National League didn't have the foresight of the two largest clubs reaching Wembley.

They communicated to Wembley, who in turn communicated to TfL that the attendance for this final wouldn't top 40000, suggesting that they felt two smaller supported clubs would reach it.

That didn't happen and their was no contingency plan in place.

That's like the FA saying they don't expect Liverpool and Manchester United to meet in the FA Cup final when reaching the semis, jeez.

 

[londonbridge]

Poor planning from whoever sets the National League schedule.

17th/18th May men’s and women’s FA Cup finals

24th-26th May EFL playoff finals

What other weekend could they play the game? Or are you suggesting the National League should just be told sorry you can’t use Wembley this year because TFL have got in before you?

TFL know there are major football matches at Wembley on weekends in May every year. Is it essential that the maintenance work is scheduled for the same time period?

 

[danchester]

17th/18th May men’s and women’s FA Cup finals

24th-26th May EFL playoff finals

What other weekend could they play the game? Or are you suggesting the National League should just be told sorry you can’t use Wembley this year because TFL have got in before you?

TFL know there are major football matches at Wembley on weekends in May every year. Is it essential that the maintenance work is scheduled for the same time period?

If the NL had booked in their slot at Wembley early enough then TfL would have worked around them, TfL have said as much (though of course the statements are somewhat contradictory). Presumably they didn't, and the date was known to have engineering work on it, so they could have opted for a different stadium - there are other very suitable choices in London. The one thing we can say for sure about all this is that the NL complacently assumed it wouldn't matter, told everyone as much, and didn't have any backup plans.

 

[DarloRich]

That's like the FA saying they don't expect Liverpool and Manchester United to meet in the FA Cup final when reaching the semis, jeez.

Can you tell me who next seasons play off teams will be so I can get a bet on? The play off dates are set before the season starts

As an example It could easily have been FGR v Gateshead in the final this year and this would be a non story

 

[AF91]

17th/18th May men’s and women’s FA Cup finals

24th-26th May EFL playoff finals

What other weekend could they play the game? Or are you suggesting the National League should just be told sorry you can’t use Wembley this year because TFL have got in before you?

TFL know there are major football matches at Wembley on weekends in May every year. Is it essential that the maintenance work is scheduled for the same time period?

If it's part of a wider project such as 4LM then yes it's essential that they do the work at a time that won't delay the rest of the project.

I'm not saying that they should be told they can't use Wembley, which they haven't. They've been told they can hold it but with reduced capcity so they can make a decision themselves to hold it on that day or at Wembley or go with some other plan.

 

[The Planner]

If it's part of a wider project such as 4LM then yes it's essential that they do the work at a time that won't delay the rest of the project.

I'm not saying that they should be told they can't use Wembley, which they haven't. They've been told they can hold it but with reduced capcity so they can make a decision themselves to hold it on that day or at Wembley or go with some other plan.

It is 4LM.

 

[yorkie]

Just a little bit of information...

@BennyD99 thanks for providing this context...

as I suspected it would be the capacity has been increased to 50k.

Southend vs Oldham National League play-off final capacity upped

Wembley Stadium increases ticket numbers following a backlash by fans and politicians.

www.bbc.co.uk

...and good to see that common sense has prevailed. I see that the plan includes:

Extra train services have since been laid on for the Bakerloo Line into Wembley Central, and by Chiltern Railways into Wembley Stadium station.

Also, I note from the article that, as of two days ago:

[Southend] has already sold 25,000 seats, which includes coach packages.

I note from the comments attached to that article some examples of why it is so important that this happened; people who dismissed it as not important don't understand how these things work.

If the NL had booked in their slot at Wembley early enough then TfL would have worked around them, TfL have said as much (though of course the statements are somewhat contradictory). Presumably they didn't, and the date was known to have engineering work on it, so they could have opted for a different stadium - there are other very suitable choices in London. The one thing we can say for sure about all this is that the NL complacently assumed it wouldn't matter, told everyone as much, and didn't have any backup plans.

Do you have a link to, and quote from, the statement, please? On the face of it, this does appear to differ from what bluegoblin7 says in post #81 and what AF91 says in post #107 that it has to be done at this time. Unless you are saying that TfL are referring to alternative provision, rather than closing Wembley Park?

Without a link to, and quote from, the source, it's difficult to understand what's been said (hence the forum rules require these to be included in posts that refer to such content, in addition to accessibility/inclusivity reasons); or maybe it was in an earlier post, but if so, apologies that I missed it!

 

[danchester]

Do you have a link to, and quote from, the statement, please? On the face of it, this does appear to differ from what bluegoblin7 says in post #81 and what AF91 says in post #107 that it has to be done at this time. Unless you are saying that TfL are referring to alternative provision, rather than closing Wembley Park?

Well it seems I don't have evidence for this because I was, in fact, making it up. Mea culpa. I was definitely thinking of something else - one of other statements by an involved party that has backtracked a lot - but off the top of my head I now can't even figure out which. I'm excited about the football tomorrow and it's clearly going to my head!

For what it's worth this is what the actual statement I was referring to actually said: https://x.com/mjshrimper/status/1926339428709990573?t=KWULnh3swS1CogjnlyVh5g&s=19

Claire Mann, TfL's Chief Operating Oficer, said: "We apologise to customers wo will want to travel to Wembley Park for the disruption that this closure will cause to their journeys. The Metropolitan and Jubilee lines will be closed to facilitate the completion of part of an extensive signalling upgrade that will transform journeys for people using the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines.

"We have worked closely with VWembley Stadium, Brent council, the Metropolitan Police and the Safety Advisory Group to understand the expected attendance and ensure that appropriate arrangements are in place for fans trying to reach the Vanarama National League Promotion Final. To help mitigate the impact of Wembley Park being closed, we have arranged for more Bakerloo line trains to serve Wembley Central and Chiltern Railways are providing an additional two services per hour servicing Wembley Stadium station on Sunday 1 June. Based on the number of people expected at the event, we are confident that this will help support customers travelling to and from the match."

 

[The Planner]

52,000 in the end