Refunds?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Scouse77, 21 Oct 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Scouse77

    Scouse77 Member

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2011
    My daughter has been lucky enough to win a photography competition. We received our train tickets today for a trip to London to receive her prize. The company involved has sent 2 Adults and 1 Child ticket.

    I rang them to inform them that I'm a single parent and I wouldn't require the second adult ticket and did they want the ticket back tomorrow so they could claim a refund back. They said don't worry about it.

    Is there anything to stop me getting this refund myself or even just selling the ticket on at a reduced rate myself outside the station tomorrow?
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. scotsman

    scotsman Established Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Joined:
    6 Jul 2010
    Yes and no.
    If your ticket is an Advance Single - no.

    If it's any other ticket, yes. If the tickets were bought on your behalf, I suppose you could get a refund (face value minus a £10 admin fee). But it's not permitted for you to sell the ticket - tickets are non transferable.
     
  4. Scouse77

    Scouse77 Member

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2011
    It's just listed as a "Super Off Peak RTN". My main concern is that as they appear to have been collected from a ticket machine at Charing Cross I'm assuming that the company credit card may have been used?
     
  5. scotsman

    scotsman Established Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Joined:
    6 Jul 2010
    Sounds like you better get in touch with them, then. And before the date of travel too, no one's going to accept a refund on/after the departure date

     
  6. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    5,066
    Joined:
    1 Mar 2008
    It is common for train companies to seek to ensure that refunds are made by the same method as the original payment. They do this to minimise fraud. When tickets have been paid by card, they try to ensure that the same account is credited with the refund.
     
  7. richw

    richw Established Member

    Messages:
    7,577
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Liskeard
    If paid for by card, a refund can only be done to the same credit or debit card. Have you a friend or relative who could join you?
     
  8. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

    Messages:
    3,394
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2009
    Location:
    Liverpool
    It's probably too late now, but an X after the price indicates that it was paid for by card.

    You have 28 days from the ticket's expiry - it's in the Conditions of Carriage.
     
  9. Scouse77

    Scouse77 Member

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    30 Sep 2011
    Thanks for all the information folks.

    Our family is in Liverpool and we're South Wales based. I did ask my ex-wife if she'd like to join us (we still get on) but she's "depressed".
     
  10. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

    Messages:
    10,933
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Just to clarify, you can't sell the ticket on. It's a criminal offence. You yourself also won't be able to claim the refund as you didn't buy the ticket - if the company don't want to claim a refund, I'm sure they have their own reasons for doing so.

    If the ticket is of fairly low value, any refund would be either eliminated or made pointless by the standard £10 admin fee charged for refunds.
     
  11. lyndhurst25

    lyndhurst25 Member

    Messages:
    799
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2010
    Is it allowed to give the ticket away free-of-charge, given that it is non-transferable? If the answer is no, then how is that different from the company running the competition giving away the ticket to the OP?
     
  12. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

    Messages:
    10,933
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    You can pass a ticket you've bought to another person provided that was your intention when you bought it.

    You can't buy a ticket, decide not to travel, then give it away to someone else, as that is depriving the Railway of legitimate income.

    Quite how you'd prove either is a different matter altogether! :lol:
     
  13. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

    Messages:
    4,990
    Joined:
    17 Feb 2011
    That is a fairly ridiculous argument. Who dreams up all this stuff? :roll:
     
  14. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

    Messages:
    10,933
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Who knows?

    As I said, it's impossible for anyone to enforce... :roll:
     
  15. michael769

    michael769 Established Member

    Messages:
    2,006
    Joined:
    9 Oct 2005
    In this case as the ticket was clearly bought for someone unknown to travel with you then I don't see why you cannot give it to someone as long as you don't take any money for it.


    Arguably they need to be on the same train as you though!
     
  16. MichaelAMW

    MichaelAMW Member

    Messages:
    790
    Joined:
    18 Jun 2010
    Surely the only point of the rule that says a ticket is not transferable is to require that it only be used by one person. It doesn't matter who it is and giving an unused ticket to another person doesn't deprive the railway of income. What is being prevented, I would have thought, is an attempt to avoid payment of the appropriate fares, e.g. two people separately using the out and return halves of a (cheap) return, when they ought to have bought two singles at a higher total price.

    Is "transferable" actually properly defined anywhere?
     
  17. richw

    richw Established Member

    Messages:
    7,577
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Liskeard
    With regards to the non transferable, that is unenforceable if the ticket was purchased cash, as the original purchaser is untrackable
     
  18. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

    Messages:
    3,704
    Joined:
    24 Aug 2009
    Location:
    On a plane somewhere at 35,000
    The reason tickets are not transferrable is due to the legal form of contract under which tickets are sold, which is a contract for the provision of a journey. Unlike other transactions, there is no transfer of ownership as there is nothing to transfer.

    ALL travel tickets by any means are non-transferrable.

    They are non transferrable because the law does not allow the assignment of Contracts which place obligations upon either party. Our legal system requires the contract to be specific and issued to the person travelling. The rules were changed in recent years to permit a person to buy a ticket on behalf of another, as the person buying is legally regarded as the agent of the person travelling and is therefore authorised on that basis to accept the Ts&Cs.

    This is not the case where a ticket is transferred to someone unknown. Again the re-selling of a ticket is illegal for the same reasons, not as a means of protecting revenue as the revenue has been received.

    Tickets selling agencies such as the Trainline are very clear to state in their Ts&Cs that they are acting as the agent for the purchaser. They are NOT resellers as some people think.
     
  19. transportphoto

    transportphoto Established Member Quizmaster

    Messages:
    3,927
    Joined:
    21 Jan 2010
    This is how I interpret it; for example:

    If I phone XXY Telesales and book tickets for 2 other people, myself not travelling, I give them the name of the lead passenger however the name printed on the ticket is that of the payment card holder (myself), the tickets were originally purchased with the intention of the two people travelling to use, therefore they have not been transferred, even-though my name is printed on all coupons.


    Is this correct :?:
    TP
     
  20. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

    Messages:
    10,933
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Pretty much.

    If it was always your intention to buy on behalf of the other party and pass the tickets to them, that's perfectly fine.
     
  21. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,770
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    One of the numerous ways that criminals and beggars can make money is by collecting 'used' rover/ranger tickets from bins and floors to sell on to passengers later on in the day when the ticket is still valid - another valid reason why tickets are non-transferable. Of course this then leads to other problems around stations.
     
  22. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    37,752
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    There are good reasons to have the rule - as 142094 says, beggars can be a real nuisance (when asked if I had finished with my Travelcard, I once said "yes" and ripped it up in front of them!) and giving them a ticket you do not require just funds their drug habit and deprives the Railway of revenue - there's no benefit to society in that, and okay selling on eBay or similar, isn't funding druggies habits, but it has its own problems: if you allowed it, anyone could buy AP tickets at a low price and re-sell them later at a higher price. Again, this is of no benefit to society or the Rail industry.

    So, I can understand why the rules are there. They are usually unenforceable when the tickets are given/sold to friends/family but the TOCs are not going to be too bothered about enforcing the unenforceable. But the laws and conditions as they stand allow them to combat beggars and ticket touts, and I have no problem with that.

    So the answer to the OP is: No, you cannot put the ticket on eBay. But if you can find a friend or family member to go, that should be okay :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page